Simple Faith with Rusty George

Welcome to Leading Simple with Rusty George. Our goal is to make following Jesus and leading others a bit more simple. Here's your host, Rusty George.

Hey, welcome to Leading Simple. My name is is Rusty George, your host, where we try to make following Jesus and leading others a bit more simple. Today, we're going to get some help on that because we have a conversation with two great guys who've been in Ministry for many years and decided to use their collective knowledge, wisdom and influence from executive pastoring, from being creative arts directors, service programming directors, and lead communicators, and to pull all those resources into one in this incredible company called Grow Mintum. And Growmentum is actually sponsoring the podcast for the month of June. And Grimentum is an organization that helps you not just work in your Church, but on your Church, not just in your organization, but on it. Most of us spend a great amount of time working in it, and it really kind of just we missed the.

Forest for the trees.

And these guys help you take a step back, determine some goals, some metrics, and put together some very clear, easy wins that will build some momentum for your Church. They've worked with churches from sizes of uh 100 people to 100 people, and they do an amazing job. So you're going to want to talk to them. You're going to want to hear what.

They have to say.

You can find out more@grimentumgroup.com to get more information on them, but you're going to hear a lot right now. So here is my conversation with founders of uh Grimentum, K Chung and Lee Coats.

Well, I'm joined today with the founders and the brain trust of Romantom, Inc. You guys have an IPO yet?

I'm sure Kate is working on it resting.

I'd like a few shares if possible, because you guys are up and to the right. Kye Chung, Lee Coate, um let's start off with each of you giving us just kind of a 92nd bio as to your Church experience. And then we'll get into kind of how that led to Grow minimum. Okay, let's start with you. Sure?

Yeah. Thanks for having us, Rusty, on the podcast. I grew up in the Church. My um dad was a pastor. My grandfather was a pastor. My great grandfather was a pastor. So I'm actually a fourth generation pastor. And so, yeah, basically it's like in Korea Church history. Uh it's probably one of the handful of um people that have kind of a legacy like that. So I'm definitely privileged for that. But um uh I went to College, then I went to a seminary and did my Masters to go straight to my first Church and second Church. And I thought I was on the track of being a lead pastor just like everybody else. And so on my way through a youth pastor and a worship leader and all that type of stuff, but um really landed on an executive pastor as kind of like my niche. And um I was an executive pastor for years and uh joined also the Real Life team on the executive team there as well for several years. And so that's uh been my Ministry journey.

All right, Lee, your turn.

Yeah, I don't have that kind of generational history, for sure, but uh just uh a lot of different stops on the Ministry journey that led to the moment that um embracing right now, having done typical past student Ministry, became a Church planner for a number of years, and then had what many people call a dark night of the soul moment that would be the subject of another podcast We Don't Have Time for Today, that led me into my current role for the last 15 years here at the Crossing in Vegas, being an executive pastor and um really learning to love that and really being able to lead from this position, which has um led to the work that we're doing now, even with romantic and so just love Las Vegas, feel called to this city, feel convicted about my um role here and uh just um love being able to serve in that way.

That's great. Okay, so you guys are busy.

You had successful careers in Ministry.

Everything's going fine. Uh but you decide, let's start growing them. And K, I believe this concept started with you. Tell me kind of where this came from and maybe start with defining what Gr momentum is.

Sure. Yeah. Well, the shift actually came when I did my life plan about uh six years ago, and uh my coach actually said something to me that I couldn't shake off. He said basically, he said, nothing is worse than seeing somebody in the second half of their Ministry career acting as if they were in there first. And that just shook me up to say, wow, I don't want to be that person. In fact, I want to actually spend the second half of my Ministry career helping people who are in there first. And so I uh was already helping churches and leaders and doing some of that stuff, but I really found some joy in doing that. And so basically, about three years ago, I transitioned from executive leadership at um Real Life to uh helping leaders and organizations full time and coaching and consulting. I still remember about three years ago, almost to the day, Rusty, where I was actually on the exec team at Real Life, and I walked into Fred Gray's office, more like a trailer at the time, because we were in the middle of a building project. Um and I remember telling him that I'll be pursuing this uh consulting thing full time. And as uh surprised as he was with the news, his response was, well, Real Life will be your number one fan and your number one client. And Rusty, you guys have been since, and I have been so honored. In fact, Real Life is still my home Church where my family attends and serves weekly. And I get the privilege of calling you Rusty, my pastor, so it's been a fun joy and a ride.

Well, it was obvious from day one that you were made to do this. I do want to ask you about what you just said about your life plan. I think that's so interesting. Define the difference between the first half of Ministry, second half of Ministry, and how is your life coach kind of helping you determine that?

Yeah. And I think that's probably different for everybody. Some people actually come into Ministry through uh a second career, so uh theirs might be looking differently. So I think probably less of a time thing. But for me, I dedicated 25 years of uh full time Ministry, and um I saw my father, my grandfather, I didn't see my great grandfather, but heard the stories, and they gave endlessly to all the things uh to the Church that they were at assigned to. Right. But what I wanted to do is I really wanted to see what I can uh if God's path for me was actually to come alongside of other people. And so when I started doing this, the interesting thing was that the um most fulfilling thing about what I get to do right now is that what I get to help with one Church, actually, I can help that product or whatever we create or whatever we do there actually gets to help another Church as well. It's very Kingdom minded in a lot of different ways. And we know that all churches are unique. And at the same time, we also have similar challenges and pain points. And so it's probably one of the most rewarding things that I found so uh far. What I get to do that's great.

So, Lee, you had somewhat of a similar journey in that you're working at a Church and loving it and having great success, and you're a very creative person, so it kind of scratches that edge a little bit. But why do this as well? I uh know that you were probably doing some consulting here and there with other organizations. Why grime?

Well, I think, frankly, Rusty, there was obviously the connection with Kaye and his heart. And as he just shared what he was doing, that I felt like there was a correlation there. One of the things that I think all of us face in our lives and leaderships in the seasons that were in just having a conversation with my team here today around um we call it, how do you move from a warrior phase in your life to more of a King or a Queen phase um in your life? And I felt that a few years ago, the King or Queen does not mean uh an ego or arrogant way, but more versus always in the battle, but more directional and experience. And how do you provide that? And so as I was making that adjustment in my boots on the ground role that I still play here at the Crossing in Vegas, I also found that it gave me the opportunity to provide that on a wider scale in a sense of mentoring and being able to connect with those churches and really went along with, again, Life plan as the theme. But it really went along with some of the stuff, the uh learnings that I had in that experience to the point where I really try to live out every day. This mantra that's kind of driving a lot of what I'm doing now. It's the idea of how my powerfully positioned to influence and serve the person I once was. And so that has been a uh filter for a lot of the conversations and the relationships that we've developed through Growmentum, where we have a lot of warriors who are alongside us in our Grow momentum group that really are hungry and need, and we're able to complement where they are in Ministry in the season of life that we are in. And so it's been a little tricky with still being boots on the ground here and doing things on a day to day basis. But I think for both K and I and his involvement continuing there with you has helped us to really implement and be more valuable. We're not just I um think of that old Muppet show with the two guys sitting up high um and kind of critiquing all the time. I think sometimes, unfortunately, as consultants and coaches are prevalent, they can kind of become that right. They have all the answers. They sit up high, they kind of judge and point fingers and tell you everything. And we've really worked hard to stay engaged on a local level so that we can be more effective on a wider level.

That's so good.

Yeah.

That's one of the things I love about what you guys do is you're both practitioners as well. So it's not a removed kind of uh the stage up on the Hill. You guys are still both in the battle to some degree. Okay. For our listeners who are new to all this, just in a nutshell, what's Grow minimum? What is it you guys do and how is it a little bit different than maybe other consulting organizations that are out there?

Yeah, grandma. Uh our mission is actually to help you accomplish your mission uh by helping uh leaders and organizations work on it, not just in it. And so you might have heard that phrase before the on it versus in it. But every gravitational pull for every organization is to work in it. Right. It's the tyranny of the important. It's the uh getting ready for the weekend. It's the tasks that need to be done. Whenever you're working on it, though, you're thinking about how uh things are getting better. How can we make this better? How can we think strategically and think about the future? But the reason why the gravitational pull is actually to be in it is because when we're working on it, our email boxes are getting more full. Our to do list is not getting done. Um our slack is actually stacking up. It's just easier to just work in it. But the tension is how do you work on it while you're working in it? We are actually at a Church in Colorado a couple of years ago, we were talking about this tension and I said, I wish I had a little coaster that had in it on one side and on it on the other side. So that could just flip that coaster on certain days to prioritize that, hey, I'm going to work on it today. And actually the next week, Lee and I received this nice wood coaster that was engraved in it and on it. And we've been giving out these coasters ever since.

It's become a piece that we give out to people now that are alongside us.

Yeah. So we are just partners and uh we just want to be that built in accountability to remind them to um flip that coaster on the honey side and work on it to make the organization better.

And I think in the current context, one of the ways in which I think what we do has been so helpful and you're on this podcast and all of us have talked through the last two plus years and all the unique challenges. But I think that idea of working on it in this context is more relevant than ever because one of the things that we've noticed out of necessity is so many churches and organizations became very nearsighted again out of necessity. We went through seasons where we couldn't think more than 60 days out. Are we meeting? Are we not meeting? What's the next crisis? But unfortunately, what we've discovered is that a lot of leadership has become the rut or the habit in which they're now operating. And so as we move forward, part of our work on our conversations with them is to try to get them back to thinking much more holistically, much more long term and starting to paint some of those pictures that's um the work on it that we come alongside and um help them and then diving back in, zooming in, zooming out, zooming in, zooming out. It's not just all high level and good luck. We'll talk to you again in three months. But really assuring them that will be alongside you on a regular basis as you're executing the unit based on the on it that we've discovered together.

And that's probably one of the distinguishing things about us is because if an organization's actually gravitational pull is to work in it, then probably a consultant's gravitational pull is to work on it. And yet at the same time, we also want to manage that tension as well. And so that's why we partner up with organizations to even work in it some as we help work on it with the organization.

Mhm so, okay, let's just get real practical here. Somebody decides to call you up, you uh meet with them. What's step one that you sit down with their lead pastor or you sit down with their lead team, give me a few questions. You're going to start mining data out from them as to what it is you need to help them with.

Yes. I think the first thing that we want to discover, even in those initial conversations, is really making sure that we understand their unique context. We believe that even though we are practitioners and continue to be that obviously what um we call a UI, which is a unique identifier that kind of sets that Church aside but also says, why does this Church need to exist? All of us know churches are everywhere, every corner we have churches, but we believe in the mission that Jesus gave us, the great Commission, and that each Church has a unique identifier that contributes to that mission going forward. So some of our initial conversations is really to help them try to discover that or to at least articulate that to us and then begin to unpack. Um what are the pain points? What are the pain points that are going on? And then one of the things that grow minimum really works hard on is mhm just taking them a little bit up uh from the source of their pain point, which feels so like, how do we deal with this right now? Just slap a bandaid on it, put some Sav on it, and move on? How do we move them up to maybe discover what is really leading to these pain points that you're feeling and then beginning to work with some constructs, et cetera, that we'll talk about that kind of help them identify and then move forward in that process? We've really discovered and leaders know this, but I think sometimes we ignore it. There aren't a lot of real short term fixes. It's really based in the culture of the ecosystem of every unique Church. And the more we can kind of ingrain, which is why one of our values is just to relationally connect with these churches that we're working with. And that's been a premium for us, is to really relationally network with them and be alongside them as a partner, not just a consultant. So we talk to them a lot about what is your unique ecosystem that you're working with and how can we partner with you and making sure that that flourishes and that there's a sustainable process that will allow that to be as effective as possible.

Yeah. One of the foundational tools that probably we help navigate from the very get go is something we call alignment. And the phrase goes like this. Our strategy drives our vision through our values towards our mission. Our strategy drives our vision through our values towards our mission. It's like building blocks, right? So the bottom layer really is the mission. It's the bottom layer. It's why we exist. And so for all churches, we've got a mission statement, and it shouldn't really be that different than the great Commission. We just all have a creative way in which we say those things. Right. But that layer should not change. It's as solid as concrete. But the next layer is the values and how we actually live out our mission. Uh it's the core values. And we've just been amazed at how many churches don't have core values, or if they do, they're actually more on the walls than lived out in the halls. That's an Andy Stanley phrase right there. But everyone has values, right?

Yeah.

Values are either what we create or what we allow. And so it's so important in how we build that foundation. But a lot of times what we do is instead of actually going from the ground up, a lot of churches, what they'll do is they'll go straight to the strategy or they'll go straight to the execution. They'll borrow, they'll steal, they'll take something from another Church, and there's a silver bullet mentality. And yet at the same time, we have a unique mission and a unique value, and then the vision and the strategy should actually drive that.

I love that you said that, Kye, because I think for the first half of my Ministry and this is my default, I have to fight against I just assume there's a silver bullet out there. And for years it was we'll just do whatever Willow is doing. And then it was do whatever Saddleback is doing now. Let's do whatever North Point is doing. And now it's elevation and insert Church flavor of the year.

We're doing whatever Real Life is doing here. I don't know what everybody else is doing, but that's what we're doing.

So you're getting the morphed down version of North uh Point.

Good to know.

Uh the uh mutant. So um I think that we're always looking at that. But you're right. Context is so different. Southern California is so different than Seattle or Atlanta or uh Chicago uh or whatever. So figuring out who you are and what works in your context is huge. So I know you guys have worked with a lot of churches, so give us a few just real specific success um stories. We went into Church a this is what we discovered. Here are some changes we implemented, and here's the outcome.

I think using just piggybacking off of the alignment language that Kay just mentioned. I think introducing that to a couple of our churches that are located even in a pretty Bible Belt environment without giving their names, introducing um that language was extremely helpful for them because they struggled even knowing what conversation they were having. Are we having a vision conversation? Are we having a mission conference? What are we having? And so to begin to introduce that what's happened is now they're operating out of or they're in the process of operating much more out of a very uh focused, laser focused work on it mentality. So even in their agendas, even in their meetings, their conversations, they're using those values, those conversations as what we would call a decision factor and also operationalizing or embedding them in. And that's led them to do some creative things. We've got churches that are even in the midst of the pandemic, have created optional Church service times that are odd or different, but they're looking at different times to get people together. We have churches that are multiplying their online presence based on their understanding of their values and what those values hold out and do. And I think we've talked about the idea that engagement is the new attendance. So in a number of our churches, as they've recovered from the Pandemic, their ability to focus on engagement, not just we all love it, not just butts in the seats. Can we say butts on the podcast?

Yes, we'll bleep it out, but that's.

Fine just on the seats. And I think that's the drift right now. So a lot of the churches and all that, Kate, speak to this as well, that we're coming alongside is really helping them as people are filling seats. We love people filling seats. We believe part of being a Church on mission, which is a term we use, is that you would gather purposefully. But those adverbs are important. Why are we now gathering towards what end? Towards what objective? And so we've got a number of churches that are starting to gain some traction even larger than their precovid traction based on a lot more alignment around what are we doing? Why are we doing it? And it is impacting their strategy at the top of that and their execution for sure. Kate, do you want to speak to that?

Yeah, um it's interesting, right, Rusty? Because if you do the math, three uh years ago we started uh this journey, and two of it has been actually in covet. Right. And so when we think about that, as Lee just said, Church leaders are now more nearsighted than they ever have because they were only looking at the next 60 days to 90 days because they couldn't see the future anymore. And so this is actually paralyzed leaders in their dreaming, in their visioning because of all the uncertainty. But all the Pandemic did was actually lose the illusion that we were in control in the first place. Right. And so without uncertainty, there's no need for leadership. And so we need to build that muscle of visioning and dreaming more farsighted uh like we uh did before the Pandemic uh to charge the next. So for the sake of the mission. So that's what we've been coming alongside of churches and Church leaders to be able uh to say, hey, what does that picture look like when you fast forward and living out your mission and your vision? What does uh that look like in three to five to ten years outstretched. And then how do you build a plan to be able to do that? One of the things I love about our Church, Rusty, is that we've got that vision of by 2030 we want to have 30 churches and Church plants by 2030. And I sat uh in a staff meeting probably about two months ago, and I just remember that as you casted that vision and everything that we talked about that day leadership pipeline to multiplication, to all the things that we talked about that way was to the ends of that um big picture for the ten year target that we wanted. And that is actually leading in a way that actually compels us forward and uh dreaming and vision about what's next.

Yeah, we've talked about even the idea of phrase we use, and this has really um leveraged a lot of churches is in the midst of chaos find the ground to be gained. And so it's that idea of like, we realize we're in different territory. We realize you were not trained to lead through not just the health pandemic, but all of the things that have come along in the last two years. But we still believe in the mission of the Church that Jesus gave us and that there's ground to be gained. We'll spend time with churches literally having less. And as they begin to think about man, we have gained ground. We have seen God do incredible things, and that will catapult them towards Where's the ground that's still to be gained and to begin to bring some hope, which leads to those long term vision elements that Cay referenced.

Yeah, that's uh such a good clarifying point. I know personally it can get overwhelming when your only vision is to save the world. Uh first of all, I'm not sure if that's our sole responsibility, but you look at the Great Commission and you think, oh, my goodness, that's so daunting. But there can't be another vision. There can't be another mission. Well, you think about the Apostle Paul. Yeah, absolutely. He wanted to get the gospel to everybody possible, but then he narrowed it down. He said, I'm going to go to the Gentiles. And then he narrowed it down even more. I'm going to go to the city and I'm going to actually set up with these people by the Port and have a conversation. First, missionary second, missionary third. He's on his way to Spain before he gets killed. So he has specific goals along the way. And you reference our mission to try to plant 30 uh churches or campuses by the year 2030? It's been so liberating to have kind of a, yes, we all want the Great Commission, but what's our piece of that? And then what are the steps along the way to get there, which has really helped us?

We've got a Church outside of Dallas that you would never think from our natural state of things. Even the first initial conversation I had with them, they're in this rural community about 45 minutes outside Dallas. The community is known for having the largest flea market in the world. So once a month, the entire state of Texas comes there. But other than that, it's very rural. The first meal I had with the pastor was at a truck stop. But when I got in there, I began to see in his context, he was gravitating towards being a Church on mission, which we talk about. A Church on mission has these elements of gathering, purposely serving, Selfly connecting, deeply giving, generously, and mostly influencing daily. And over the last year, he has gone to two services. He's looking at multiplying his rural unique identifier into different areas and smaller communities. And nobody would go there. Like no leader would say, go there and change the world. But to your point, Rusty, he's changing the world in his context in ways that are very unique, very unique. Not doing it the way we would do it in Vegas or the way you would do it in Southern Cal. But man, because the mission is the mission, it's been extremely effective.

That's so good. Alright. So if I'm a Church up there and I'm thinking, well, that sounds interesting, but um I'm only a Church of 50 people because we just started or I'm a Church of 300 and we're uh doing okay, or I'm a Church of maybe 400 and we're stuck. Um speak to me as to the resources you provide for each of those scenarios.

Yeah. So one of the things that we did in the middle of a pandemic is actually start a monthly think tank call where we gather Church leaders across the nation and really challenge them with that question that was asked earlier in the midst of chaos, what is the ground to be gained? And during that time we saw Church leaders that were Zoom fatigue, decision fatigue, pandemic fatigue, politically fatigued. I mean, basically fatigue, fatigue. Right. And our constant challenge to them was what's the opportunity that we have in the season to move your organization forward? And that's the difference. And so uh what we did was through uh this think take call that uh has been growing and growing, and it's just been a great monthly call that we just do for free. And so anybody is welcome to be uh able to join that. That's the first thing that I would just say. And we can put it in the show notes and put the um link out there for you guys. But anybody is welcome because I think all of us just really need to be able to have people that we can talk things through.

Yeah. It's funny that started as a bunch of guys and resting. I'm sure you were doing this in your circles. It was like, hey, I don't know what I'm doing. Do you know what you're doing? What are we doing? Let's get on a phone call and it was so effective. We did it again a week later and then it evolved into this point where there are well over 100 that are part of that network in um this momentum think tank. And every month we just have a theme that we kind of feel like is something we've been hearing here's an issue last month, we discussed at length the idea of what do we do with the lack of volunteers, how do we empower volunteers? And so it's a bit of both kind of um leading a conversation, but also some collaborations with executive Church leaders all over the country that jump in for an hour once a month. And we just uh love it and we love what it brings, and we love the relationships that are formed there. We'd encourage somebody, again to uh hit it. If they are feeling isolated or feeling like they need a little joke, that would be a place to start.

Yes. And the other thing that we do on that thing, Tank Call, is that we just uh give all the resources away. I mean, all the things that we've developed, all the tools and everything. We've just decided, hey, especially during the time. But even so now, if that's all you need and you need just some of these resources, these tools to be able to help you go forward, then that's fantastic. And that's great. At the same time, if you need us to come alongside of you and help, we do this thing called Strategic Momentum Process, or SMP. And we've done this over and over at Real Life, Rusty. Right. But it's actually walking through that alignment. It's actually going through our mission, our values, our strategy and our vision and putting all those things on paper. And so if you need us to be able to come alongside and partner in that way, we can do uh that as well. And then, of course, the other thing that we do is executive coaching on the back side of that so that we can partner and continue to be alongside of you if that's needed.

The SMP is just catalytic for churches because as you get in the room with your leadership team, many of these churches will invite some of their key um elders uh boards, however, they uh would describe that into the room as well. And you can just watch over that day and a half. Plus, they just get fully invested. And I know there's so many leaders out there that want to gather their teams. They want to have these conversations. But frankly, they just need someone to help them have those conversations and to really not hijack their vision, but to come alongside their vision and to help them articulate it and help mobilize their team. So it's not just a day and a half of conversation. It really leads to action that will uh follow that we jump in alongside you to help execute that's so good.

And that's a great point to make is that working with romantic is not bringing you guys in and you come in with a list of answers. It really is. You're the guide of mining the answers out of the people uh in the room. We've worked uh with you guys, obviously, for years and every time we do an off uh site or do a day and a half or whatever, we always scrub uh the board a little bit, clean up some things, um focus a little bit on what matters most, and we come away with a realization of, oh, yeah, this is why we do what we do, and this is how we're going to do it better.

Yeah. The other part of that is then obviously we um um make ourselves available for long term regular partnership and in a consulting advisory role with executive leaders in those teams, hopefully um following up with that SNP process, which we either start with or try to integrate in at some point early on in our relationship with that Church. And part of what we do is relational. I know that sounds so cliche, but we really have talked about how do we maintain the boutique nature of Grow minimum even as we gain momentum. And so we're wrestling ourselves with that because we believe those relational components um are huge. Part of our agreements with our churches is you have full access. So the balance of that is interesting as an individual to navigate. But I'll have Church leaders all the time that will say, hey, I'm about to go into a really hard uh conversation with a team member, give me two um or three things via text that I can think about as I go in. And so we want to be available in those quick hits, to be able to guide and all of those moments where we just need some reassurance or we need some help in those moments as leaders, we want to provide that experience for you.

Yeah. I cannot say enough about the uh value of coaching, especially when it comes to having somebody that can just help you see things you're not seeing. It's a little bit like when your kids come to you. Well, uh when they actually do come to you and ask for a little bit of assistance, you're able to see things they can't see. I shared this illustration uh a few weeks ago at Church about I was on a flight one time and the pilot came on and he said, I'm putting the fastened seatbelt sign on because I can uh see things you can't see. So don't out think me on this one. Sit down. And I love that because he's just admitting, listen, I can't control everything out here, but I can certainly see things you can't. So let me just help you look out for things around the bend a bit, which is what you guys do. So I know our listeners that are Church planners or Church leaders, they've got a lot of potential resources out there. There's stratops, there's different organizations that do these kinds of things. And I love what you uh just said. It kind of a boutique experience that Growmentum has. You have a list of potential uh coaches they can work with that are second to none. I mean, these guys are great guys, yourself included. So what's the best way for them to connect with you and find out more and maybe even have you come out?

Yeah, definitely. Just go to our website Grimentumgroup.com, or follow us on Instagram and you can uh have some of those Nuggets as well as no uh one think calls are happening. And the Instagram handle is just momentum so you uh can follow up there.

That's so great. Well, I'm uh going to give you a last shot here. You each get 60 seconds. I want you to speak directly to that Church leader out there that is overwhelmed, that needs help but doesn't even know where to begin. And wonders can grow medium help. Lee, you go first, then K, you finish it off.

I would just say to that leader that's listening right now that you are placed specifically there for this season and you need to have the confidence that God has placed you in this moment and that despite all of the challenges you may be looking at, that there is a reason that you are there and there is a plan for growth in your context that God wants to see as you reach that community around you. And we would love to just come alongside you and partner contextually with you, not with our plan, but with your plan and what God wants to do there. And we believe that we could be a great help to you as we build a relationship together and see life change happen in the place that God has placed you.

Yeah. And I would say as far as uh what people are dealing with in the midst of everything in this season is this framework that's been really helpful as the was is and can be. And I think a lot of churches are actually stuck in the was of what used to be. There was actually a leader that uh I ran into. And he says our mission statement might say that we exist to help people become fully devolved to followers of Jesus, but really our mission is to get as many people back in the building as possible. And that's because it's the was thinking right. And sometimes we just need to have a funeral, a moment of mourning, and move from the was, accept what is the reality of what is today. And then let's dream about the can be. Let's move towards what we can go towards uh for the future.

Yes.

I was talking to a leader the other day and he said, what are your post Cove in numbers? And I said, we're about 65% back. And he said, no, you're not. You're 100% back. True. That's all that's coming back.

That's the is right.

That's right.

And so then it changes the conversations you're having with your team in good ways where it's like we quit worrying about what was and we just prepare for what can be. And it's unique to where we are. So that's great.

It is painful you got to grieve it and you got to just have the funeral but then you move on. And as our friend Shane always says, now I know who's with me so let's move ahead. I was told I got a Church plan of this many people and we're starting fresh. Boy, I'd be all excited about that. So let's go for it. So I know you guys have helped out so many and will uh help out a lot because of this conversation. So to both of you, thank you for starting a second job because it definitely uh benefited us and so many other churches. So I appreciate what you guys do and thanks for supporting the podcast too.

Thanks, rusty.

Thanks so much, rusty.

Well, that was so fun. I really enjoy talking to those guys. They do such great work and I cannot encourage you enough to go check.

Uh out what it is they do.

Bring them in for an assessment, let them talk to your people and find.

Out how they can help you guys.

In your particular Church. If you're a Church plant out there, they'd be great to bring in. If you're a Church that you've been around for 40 years but you feel.

Like you've plateaued or you're stuck right.

Now, they can help.

If you're a Church that just needs.

Some more uh creative ideas, you feel like you've got some momentum. You just want to make sure you keep it going. These guys can help. So go to grow momentumgroup.com and connect with them and find out more. Well, I want to make sure that you're sending in reviews of the podcast as you do that we're going to collect those reviews and at the end of the summer I'm going to give away a special gift to somebody that I choose from that collection of reviews.

So please leave a review of the.

Podcast that would mean the world to me. Go ahead and give us a rating while you're at it. As long as it's five stars, that would be great uh and we would love to hear uh from you. So as always, keep it uh simple and we will talk to you next time.

Take a moment and subscribe to the podcast so you'll get it delivered every weekday and subscribe to the Rusty George YouTube channel for more devotional messages and fun videos. Thank you for listening to leading simple.