The Rusty George Podcast

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Well, thanks so much for joining us as we continue our discussion on what will make leading a bit more simple in our churches and in our lives. I want to thank our friends at Saga Counseling. For providing sponsorship for this podcast, saga's an incredible organization that you can access from wherever you are.

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Needs Well today, man, I can't wait to share this episode. Two of my favorite people in the world are pastors Gene Appel and Mike Breaux. They go way back and planted a church together out in Las Vegas. Uh, gene is a legendary pastor that has worked in Vegas, also in Chicago and in California. Mike has worked in Vegas, Kentucky.

Illinois also in California, and actually serves about eight churches across the country right now. And he's an incredible individual. Both I would consider to be friends and have been mentors in my life. And for those of us who are pastors every year, we're kind of wondering, all right. What are we teaching on over the course of the next year?

If it's our job to feed the sheep of God, if we're supposed to shepherd them in a way that they follow Jesus a bit better next year than they did the previous year, what do we need to teach on? What do we need to go through as a church? How often should we stop and pause and give voice to current events?

How do we deal with Easter and Christmas in a new and creative way? And what are some little insights and tools of the trade? But these guys can teach us. I ask all these questions and so much more. Here's my conversation with Gene

Mike Breaux: and Mike, gene, apple, Mike, bro,

Rusty George: you've both been on the podcast before.

Thank you for coming back, coming back together. This is a lot of fun. Uh, Collectively between the two of you, I think you, we probably have about a hundred years of, uh, preaching experience. Um, so I, I, I just wanted to garner some wisdom from you guys, uh, about how to put together a teaching calendar. So let's do this.

Let's give everybody an update as to where, where you are and what you're doing. Uh, Mike, you've moved around, um, a little bit more recently. Um, but Jean, you got a lot of exciting things going on at East Side. Just give our listeners a little bit of update on who you are and what you're doing.

Mike Appel: Yeah. So, uh, I've been at Eastside Christian Church, which is based in Anaheim, California for I'm in my 15th year.

Time flies when you're having fun and it's, uh, just been a joy to be at Eastside. It's a church that I interned at when I was 20 years old. That was my first time to be in California, having been a Midwest kid and, uh, the church that really marked my life and it's been fun to get to come back and be a part of a chapter.

To be a part of marking, uh, the future of, of East Side's life. And, and, uh, just really grateful to see God reaching a lot of people in a lot of places where it's, uh, kind of crazy. But we're, we're seven campuses. But the odd thing about that is we're in three different states and, um, it's been a lot of fun and, and grateful.

Wow.

Rusty George: Mike.

Mike Breaux: Yeah, man, I, I, I, uh, I can't believe it's been 15 years Gene, since you've been at East Side. It's pretty awesome. And, uh, I, I, that East Side is, uh, one of the churches I teach at as, as well as, uh, with you Rusty at, uh, real Life, in case you'd forgotten that I'm on, on her team. Um, but I, I teach at, uh, a church called Lake Point and, uh, and in the Dallas area also, uh, church, Mississippi, North Carolina, uh, And various other places, but, but mainly I just rotate between, uh, six different churches these days.

And, um, it's really, really fun for me. I get to come alongside guys I trust and respect and, and may maybe help the church move forward a little bit. So did the lead pastor thing for a lot of years and, um, that's kind of fun, uh, doing the, doing the role I'm doing. So that's, I'm,

Rusty George: that's what I'm doing. Mike, with all the cities you're in, do you ever have that moment where you welcome the wrong city from stage?

Mike Breaux: I haven't done that yet, but thanks for putting it in my head.

Mike Appel: East. He told me East Side is his favorite church to preach at, so I just wanted you to be aware

Mike Breaux: of. Listen, he told me that too. It's right after real

Mike Appel: life.

Mike Breaux: You know what's pretty fun for me is that wherever I'm at, it's my favorite. I do, I feel like. I feel like I'm home everywhere I go. It's just kind of a unique thing that God has, uh, wired me up to do.

And I feel really, uh, really, really blessed to get, to get to do it with my life. And I do feel at home, at all the places I go. I, I very rarely feel like a guest speaker. So, uh, that's, that's a good thing.

Rusty George: Well, that's a lot to say about you cuz you make everybody feel like family. Uh, I, I, you know, I'm just thinking about how I've only been at two places.

And I still have those moments where, and Lori and I laugh about this, where we see somebody at re at a restaurant or in the mall, we think, oh, what state do we know them from? Who do they remind us of? You know, that. I mean, bro, you gotta have constantly, oh man. Is that person from California, Carolina, Kentucky,

Mike Breaux: Chicago?

Yeah. I just speak to everybody. I say hi to everybody. So. Yeah, it's, uh, it's always, it's always fun though. I, I, I, I really do kinda take that mindset of, I, I might know this person, so, yeah. So,

Rusty George: so you better be nice. That's alright. I, I wanted to talk to you about how you plan your messages and specifically a teaching calendar.

Um, I think that, uh, many of our listeners that are in church work put together, you know, a teaching calendar for probably at least, Six months out, if not a couple of years. But I, I'd like to know, starting off, how, how far in advance do you like to plan? I know Mike, you work with a variety of different pastors as they plan their series, but you know, in Jean your case, you're, you're kind of the lead planner.

So what's a comfortable amount of time to be, uh, ahead? Because sometimes you can get too far and it's just not realistic. But then you don't wanna be week to week either.

Mike Appel: I, I mean, I, I have a, a personal answer and kind of an organizational answer to that. My, my personal preference is to plan 12 months in advance where I can really map out, you know, at least 90% of the 12 month period where I know where I'm going.

And it just helps me mentally, emotionally, spiritually, prepare, be thinking about, you know, you, you read an article and you're thinking, oh, I'm, I'm preaching on that 10 months from now, I need to. Make sure I grab that or, you know, uh, get a link to that or whatever. But organizationally, I have found it's best for East Side in this season of our life to kind of plan more six months out and, um, The, the reason for that is, um, we, we, we do ministry plans on the six month cycle, and it helps the preaching be responsive to the ministry initiatives that we're really trying to advance as a church.

And I mean, there's some exceptions to that where we get further out. Like if this past year we did a generosity initiative and so we had to be further out than six months in planning for that. Year before we did, uh, a Churchwide Financial Peace University emphasis, we needed to be further out than than six months getting ready for that.

But generally it serves the church best if I don't plan further than six months out.

Mike Breaux: That makes sense. Yeah. For, for me, uh, uh, a similar, similar type of answer. Uh, I always try to map out the year. And, you know, I've, I've worked with both of you doing that type of thing, so you kinda know that's, that's kinda the way I like to, like the role with it.

And, uh, because it makes me think about in my, I start, I start with a prayer, God. Like, where, where do you, where do you want this church to be a year from now? And what do I need to teach? What does, what does our team, uh, need to teach to help get it there? Uh, because I, I believe in and still, even though I'm, I'm, I'm no longer officially a leader.

I'm a, I'm a leader. I, I'm, I'm called to lead. I, I believe if you, if you don't lead while you teach, you're not a very good teacher. Mm-hmm. So I, I'm trying to come alongside people and, and help, help lead through through teaching and I've always felt like, God, that's the way you wired me up. And so what, what would be some helpful things to help our, our church accomplish?

What you want us to accomplish this year? So I would map it out a year ahead of time. And then I'd just be totally wide open to, you know, calling an audible, saying, no, we're gonna bag that series. We're gonna go a different direction. This happened in the world and now we're gonna go here and talk about this.

Um, but I, I liked just for the directional part of it, for me, uh, to be, to be that far out.

Rusty George: Okay. So we all have people that. Kind of speak into our planning. Sometimes it's staff, sometimes it's our wife, sometimes it's, you know, culture or you know, other pastors that we know. We think, oh, that's a good idea.

We should do a series on that, or that's a series I wanna do. Um, Who do you tend to listen to the most, who gets to influence your teaching? Because obviously you got people in your church that would, they wish you'd speak more on the end times or, you know, a, a, a book study through the minor prophets or whatever.

But, but, but who do you tend to kinda listen to when it comes to those subject matters? Well, the

Mike Appel: first one for me is, is one that's, you know, the top of the list is bro, because he, he's, you know, part of our teaching team. And so when we go into our. Ministry planning periods every six months. Uh, sometimes he's able to join us for that.

Not always, but even if he's not, uh, we bring him into the loop of where that six months is going and he helps me think about strategically, uh, You know, a preaching direction, he'll make suggestions on series or if we come up with a series often he'll help give it a more creative title or something that you can grasp onto and, and some, uh, ideas.

So, so he, he's a big voice in, in our sermon planning, but I'm, my, my style of leadership is collaborative, so there's actually quite a few people who speak in broadly to us. We. Ministry planning and six month cycles. I've got all of our executive team, our campus pastors, um, our department heads kind of, you know, and, and we're all creating plans.

And so we're kind of, we're, um, They don't have the final say in all that, but they do get to speak in, and their voice is really valuable to me in thinking about what was gonna resonate with people, uh, in this season, what's, what's really gonna help us, uh, move things forward. Uh, another member of our staff, Jake Barker, uh, teach us.

And so Jake has a big voice in that. Um, A couple months ago, after kind of going through a six month cycle, he and, um, our director of creative arts and I got together and kind of, kind of then crystallized some things that a lot of other people had already spoken into, if that makes sense. Mm,

Mike Breaux: that's really good.

Yeah, I would, I must answer would be very similar. Uh, of course I throw you into that mix as well because I collaborate with both of you and, um, and I've always had other. Lots of voices, uh, speak into the direction of where, where our teaching needed to be. Uh, another big one for me, um, you know, personally is my daughter, uh, Jodi Hickerson is, uh, extremely creative and, and, and we're both always.

Thinking, teaching, you know, I'll be, you know, me guys, I, I'll be in a lawnmower, you know, my zero turn cutting seven acres of grass going. Okay. And that's a series, and I think that could be a series. That's what I do. I speak out, you know, I talk into my phone and, you know, in the notes section and put it all in there, and I just save it and then it comes back around.

I go, Hey, here's some, here's something I was thinking about. I might throw it by Jody. And she'll go, oh yeah, we were thinking about. And then pretty soon we're collaborating on some, you know, new idea, fresh way to teach something out. So, um, yeah, I talk, I talked to a lot of different guys too, and like, like Gene was saying, you know, look around, see what other people are doing and, and maybe, uh, I, I listen to all kinds of stuff though.

I mean, it could be a book I'm reading, it might be a, a commercial. I see. It might be just a lot of things spur, uh, those creative thoughts and, and, uh, take me down that direction.

Mike Appel: Hey, rusty, one, one of the things that, um, You know, when you're in a, a multiple staff situation or multiple people, maybe key volunteers who speak into things is one of the things I have to remind them of once in a while and myself once in a while, is ultimately I'm the one who this is gonna roll out of my voice box.

Yeah. And so, And so, you know, I've gotta be able to feel it in my gut. It's, it's gotta be something that can come from an authentic place in me, not just something, Hey, we've got a team of people that are really, um, hyped up about something. Because if I don't feel it, it's not gonna, it's not gonna be authentic.

Mike Breaux: Right. Yeah. That's great. One of, one of the great questions, both of you guys asked me, uh, what's, what you, you'll often say, what, so what's stirring you right now? And so, I, I agree with Gene. It has to be stir in you for it to come out with auth, you know, with authenticity and with passion. I forgot what else I was gonna say, but it was gonna be really good.

It'll come to you later.

Rusty George: Hey, bro. I, I, I would be curious to know like, what, what is a, a current idea you've been working on? Cuz you've always got two or three that are just kind of, you're processing and you think, Hey, what if we did this topic or whatever. What. What's the latest idea from

Mike Breaux: the lawnmower?

It's, it's top secret. I can't, I can't reveal that to anybody right now. Oh, I, I don't know, man. I just had, I just got a bunch of 'em rolling around on my head right now. Rolling around on my heart. And, uh, you know, I, I do, uh, I do a little daily podcast as well, so I'm, I'm always thinking of where are we going with that.

So right now, personally for me, I'm just studying through the book of Philippians, just on my own. And little podcast is just, uh, Sharon. What I'm learning as I go verse by verse through it. So I got a lot of things on my, on my mind that way. Um, You know, what's, you know, how are we gonna teach this out?

When are we gonna teach this out? Uh, but I, I got some, I it just stay tuned. I will be sending them to you guys really soon, and then you can distribute to whoever you want to, but, or you can throw it in the trash as you often do, but, uh, at least, at least you'll get the ideas. Yeah.

Rusty George: Oh, that's good. Okay.

Well, one of the biggest questions a lot of people have is how do you balance topical versus uh, Textual and we've all had this discussion and argument of, we think that they're both, but you know what I mean? There's sometimes you're doing a study through the book of Jonah. And you might give it a fancy title, but it's the study through the book of Jonah.

Or it might be, uh, four things, uh, to help you break a, a cycle of, of addiction or anger or something like that. So when you're putting your teaching calendar together, how much do you do of each, or is it just kind of based on the season?

Mike Appel: Uh, I mean, I like to think 95% of my preaching is textual. It might be.

You know, um, trained as a, as topical, but, but the actual message itself is gonna grow out of the development of a text. And then there are times where you're actually teaching through a segment of scripture or a character study like I did. Uh, Uh, five or six weeks on Abraham last fall, you know, and so, so you kind of go in depth there.

Hmm. But I would say if I were to, to break it up, if, if you would look at my preacher from the outside, it probably looks like 60% is topical. Mm-hmm. But, but I would say it's probably more like 25% is, is, is when you actually look under the hood. If that makes sense. Yeah.

Mike Breaux: And I'll, I'll, I'll put a, I'll put a little bit of a different spin on it.

Uh, I, I, I would agree with Gene is that, you know, all, all of, almost all, not, almost all my teaching feels sexual, you know, that, uh, I, I don't have anything good to say apart from what God's word has to say. But also I believe that sometimes, you know, when people talk about quote unquote expository teaching, even when you're doing like verse by verse, don't go through a book, it's topical.

If, if you, if you're not, if you're not picking a topic out of there. Then you're, you're, you're, you're just, you know, trying to, uh, quench people's thirst with a fire hose. Mm-hmm. You know, it's just like, oh, and then, and this, and then this, and then this. And they go, wait, I don't know what we talked about.

But it was, you know, James something. Uh, so there's always, you know, there's always a topic. It's gonna spring out of the text, so. Mm-hmm. I, it's hard to separate the two, you know, I guess they're really just the way you package it. I do like, uh, to do, probably for me a couple times a year to, to wa walk through some kind of book or some kind of a story such as you said, Jonah, or maybe maybe walk through like I'm doing with.

Philippians right now, just, just walking through it because it does help people to get on that journey, especially people who are brand new to the Bible. So you develop some study guides that go along with it and say, Hey, we're tracking through this together during the week and on the weekends we're gonna hit these five chapters.

And, uh, you can read 'em between, I think, I think that's helpful. So I'd say a couple times a year, uh, that type of mm-hmm. Format

Mike Appel: all.

Like I, I typically don't use those two terms because, because I do think it is all textual. And all topical too. Uh, but I, but I do like to plan what I, I, I don't know what the right term is. I call it directional preaching. So like, um, So, so I try to look at a, you know, a three to six month period and think about how can we go on a journey Yeah.

That's gonna hit different aspects. So like, just to give you an example, in August each year, I really try to do something that engages the heart and soul. This August I'm gonna do, uh, Kinda August, early September, five weeks on the Lord's Prayer that just engages believers and re-engages 'em after, you know, summer distractions and all those types of things.

But then in September, I really wanna do something that's an easy invite for people that the, that's a subject matter that they can talk to their neighbors, their friends about. People they go to school with, they work with, and it becomes an easy invite. So that's a big outreach oriented type series. But then in October I'll say like, how can we deepen those people Now we can challenge 'em to step across the line of faith, maybe challenge 'em to be baptized and, and how can we grow them?

Maybe we take 'em on a study on spiritual practices or we take 'em on a study of the fruit of the spirit or. Or, uh, something along thats side. Mm-hmm. So it's that idea. There's, there's a direction that you're going. Um, and, and with a, with a different emphasis on different series, do you find

Rusty George: that it's, oh, go ahead, Mike.

Mike Breaux: No, go ahead. No, I'm just gonna say that the, you know, the term directional teaching is one I've used for a long time. And the way I think through, uh, where, where are we, where are we gonna take people? How, how are we gonna introduce them? How are we gonna. You know, uh, give 'em some first steps to take. How are we gonna deepen them?

Just exactly what Gene said that that goes with the flow of the ser the series planning.

Rusty George: Do you think that the lack of, um, consistency in people's attendance makes it difficult or more difficult to carry a series longer? Or do you just feel like every week you just gotta kind of re-engage people as say, here's where we've been.

Mike Appel: I think generally it, it's, it's the, the latter that you just said, that it's every week, you just gotta make sure they're re-engaged and that that message can stand alone on itself even if they don't hear it. Yeah. In, in the context. Certainly they're gonna miss some things if they don't hear it in context.

And, you know, I have a point of view that, um, You know, having gone through the Covid era, you know, and we all had to go online only for. For so long, you know, and, uh, our online numbers are really strong. And while I think frequency of attendance has gone down, I think we could make a pretty strong case at East Side that frequency of engagement is as high or higher than it's ever been because our people, uh, you know, it used to be if they missed, they missed, but now it's, it's on their radar.

Hey, if we're out of town, if I'm at the beach, if I'm sick, Uh, Hey, let's catch online. And that, that just wasn't a part of people's rhythm, you know, four years ago. Mm-hmm. And, and I think it is now. And so while physical attendance may be less frequent, I think engagement is higher. Yeah.

Mike Breaux: Yeah, I would agree with that.

And, and too, with the last thing you said about the, uh, Uh, you know, reengaging people every week. I've tried to make a practice and, and I'm, you know, I'm always, now I'm, I'm at a different church almost every weekend. Uh, to recap. Just really quickly where we've been, it might just be a, just might just be a sentence from the message the week before or say, Hey, you might remember if you've been here for a few weeks, we did this, this, this.

And it's real quick. Doesn't take long. Say if you missed any of 'em, catch 'em online Again, that reinforces the fact that we do have online. Um, so yeah, I, I think it's, uh, it's harder to take people on the journey, but it's also, uh, easier in some ways because of the tech stuff.

Rusty George: That's really good. Okay, so Mike, I remember when you and I worked together in Kentucky, there were a few different topics you felt like we gotta hit this every year.

Uh, we gotta do a marriage and family series every year. Uh, you always like to do an apologetic series every year, which I thought was was awesome. Um, Maybe it's, uh, a gospel, maybe it's, uh, something on prayer. But are there certain topics you guys feel like, I feel like this has always gotta be a part of the annual calendar, bro.

We'll start with you. Yeah.

Mike Breaux: Yeah. So, I, I, you know, it sounds funny to say this, but, uh, I always gotta preach on Jesus. I mean, we do, we do every week, of course. But, um, just the narratives about Jesus. I mean, you know, here, I, I've been, I've been following for a long time and he is the absolute coolest person who has ever walked the planet.

Yeah. And to not talk, to not talk about him and to not introduce people to him. It's just like, it sounds unthinkable for me to spend a year of preaching. And not do anything about Jesus, what he said, who he hung out with, you know, peop encounters he had. So that's, that's a must to, uh, to be on my, on my teaching calendars, some series, uh, there's probably a couple of them, you know, that I would, that I would throw in there.

Whether it's parables, whether it's encounters, whether it's his, uh, his, his, you know, final week heading up. It could be, as Gene said, the Lord's Prayer could be. You know, the beatitudes, but, but just highlighting who he is, how he walked, how he loved, that's gotta, that's gotta fit in there every year for me.

Mm-hmm. Also, I, I still try to do, uh, you know, when I, when I am planning the calendar, I try to, I try to do an apologetic, something in there that just helps people a little bit. Also try to, uh, you know, a little bit who might be skeptical towards faith and I always try to do some type of recovery. Series.

In fact, you, you guys both know me. I, I, I, I weave that through almost every message that I teach because we're all in recovery from something, right? And so, just a, just a way to give people here. It, it's just a series about freedom. This is how you can find freedom. And uh, for me, tho those things always made onto some kind of financial series usually, because that's part of the freedom stuff.

It's not the bang bucks outta church peoples to help people get free, you know? Mm-hmm. So I, I try to throw that in there as well. And, um, yeah, that's, that's, that's kind of the, the non-negotiables for me that have to have to do that probably every other year or two. I throw in a, some kind of identity series, uh, because people struggle with that so much and I think it hits, uh, you know, it hits an eighth grader all the way through an 80 year old, so try to throw that in as well.

That's good.

Mike Appel: Jean, I would di ditto everything Mike said. So, um, you know, one, one of the things, uh, a couple things I, I might add in my thinking, and this isn't, sometimes it's a whole series, but sometimes it's just looking for deposits that you can make along the year. But I feel like the, the quickest value to, uh, Dissipate in the life of a church is the value of evangelism because it, we always go right back to it's all about us.

It's all about us. And so I just feel like I've got to be very intentional, uh, about raising evangelistic values. Um, you know, probably once or twice really intensely during the year. And then, Periodically and strategic through throughout the re remainder of the year, just so we don't fall into the trap that, you know, it, it's all about us.

Mike Breaux: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's really great too. And I, and I, I think, I think one of the, the simple ways that we, we do that on a week to week basis as well, is just to create an environment. Through our teaching. Mm-hmm. And I mean, through, through the whole church environment, but also through our teaching, the way we say things, the way we way we frame it to make the believer know that if they brought a friend, it would, it'd be okay that they would engage with it.

That they would not, they wouldn't be lost. We're not speaking code words. You know, like, I'll, I'll just take a second instead of just saying. The Apostle Paul says, I'll just take a second and just unpack who Paul is. Yeah. There's this guy named Paul who was tapped on the shoulder, but God, you know, in a dramatic way transformed his life and he was chosen to spread love around the god's love around the world.

And he wrote a lot of New Testament. You know, it, it, it takes about maybe eight seconds to do that little disclaimer, but what it does is it, it, it, it, it lets people know I can bring a friend here. So that in that way it also creates this, this environment for your evangelistic efforts to say, okay, they'll come alongside me and help me.

That they won't come here and, and be lost, or they're not talking over their head, but they're not assuming they know all the stuff that every believer knows. Uh, so that, that's part of it too, I think.

Rusty George: Yeah. I always laugh about the story you tell about the person that came up to you and said, what is this tiffing thing?

Yeah. And they were talking about tithing. I had a guy ask me one time, what's the colon for? I said, what do you mean between the numbers on that book you keep reading from? Yeah.

Mike Breaux: Hadn't thought about explaining that. Oh, we, we, we, I remember one time Jean and I were working together up, up in Chicago. We launched it to a, to a verse study, and the first week, that's what I did.

I said, okay, so if you have a Bible, you got an app, you go to the you, you go to James, and there's a big number. That's, that's the chapter. Then there's some little numbers. There's the colon, and then there's some little numbers. That's the verse. So when you hear me say chapter one, verse 17, you understand what I'm talking about?

And I thought the people just laugh and go, come on man. I know what you're talking about, but you, you would not believe how many people said thank you. I've never known what that stuff is. So just little things like that can create an environment. Where people feel like I could en I could engage. So good.

Rusty George: Hey, let me interrupt this podcast for just a second to remind you, if you're not taking care of your mental health,

Mike Breaux: nobody is. Step up and go check

Rusty George: out saga center.org to find out more. Alright, right back to our show. Okay, so what are the most difficult things for a pastor that's been at a place for several years is coming up with something fresh to say on Christmas and Easter?

Uh, how do you guys, I mean, cuz there's. It's the same story, it's the greatest story. But how do you tell it in a fresh and new way without, Hey, here's the perspective of the donkey that was there, or those kind of things. You know, you, how do you guys kinda, you know, retell the same story in a, in a new way that's engaging for people.

Mike Appel: Well, I guess I won't be doing my donkey series this December that I had planned to do.

Mike Breaux: You could dress up like that star again.

That's great.

Mike Appel: Hey, from, um, from, um, the approach I bring to Christmas and Easter is a little bit different. I would say Rusty Christmas is our biggest. Invite opportunity of the year. We, you know, typically at our Christmas service, we'll have three times whatever our. Average weekend attendance is, and at Easter it's a couple times whatever our average weekend attendance is.

And so my, my Christmas theme typically doesn't get determined to by me. Our, our creative teams are kinda six, eight months out working on that. And they'll certainly run ideas by me and say, Hey, this is the direction we think we're going. Can you, you know, does this resonate with you? And, or they might have two or three, et cetera.

But, um, You know, our creative teams really come up with some great things that help determine what's gonna happen for that special event. And then the Christmas series itself, you know, during the month of December, you're right. I mean, you know, it, it, it's, how do you keep it fresh? And I do think there's a time just to, to kind of talk, teach through the characters of Christmas and Frankie, you know, whether it's from Joseph's perspective, Mary's perspective.

Yep. You know, Elizabeth. Uh, the shepherds, the wise men. Mm-hmm. I, I think, I think those are great things. And so those ought to be in the rotation for sure. Uh, something, uh, Mike and I did years ago in Chicago, and I've since repeated it a couple times since I've been in California, is, uh, Kind of a Christmas around the World Series, and we've used it to raise awareness of global compassion, you know, if this is good news for all people.

Uh, so, uh, you know, I, I've done Christmas messages from Mexico, from, uh, Thailand. From Kenya. Uh, I know Mike's done the Dominican Republic and. And Mexico also. And so, so a global emphasis is a great way. Uh, a lot of churches, you know, doing at the movie sometimes during the year. This year for the first time we did at the movies in December and picked up on, um, some, some Christmas themed, uh, movies in regard.

Um, so different ways. I, I love, you know, a lot of pastors have used, and I, one of my favorite ones is the colors of Christmas. Yeah. You know, just picking up how, how colors come out of the Christmas story. Red, green, white, white. So mm-hmm. Some of the different ways I've thought about it over the years.

Mike Breaux: That's good. Yeah. I think I, I agree with all that and you know, I've been a part of most of that. Um, For, for me, uh, you know, it's, it's kind of a thing, especially Christmas. Um, and we've, we, we've tried to get different churches I've been a part of, tried to get so creative around Christmas and feels like the more creative we got, the more we miss the mark.

It was like, just don't mess with Christmas. Just, just try to try to paint the picture of God's love for people. Uh, I remember one time we did a, we did a three part. Film series. Um, we, we shot three short movies. It was almost like a telling, a really, really dark story of people's lives cuz we knew a lot of hurting people would be there.

And man, by the time I got to preach, it was like, man, I gotta get this plane out of the valley. It was so dark, it was extremely creative. But man, it was dark. We said, you know what, we just we're gonna, we're gonna come up with. Like six words, what, what it ought to be. It ought to be full of light. It ought to be full of hope.

Did, did you lose me? There we go. Ought to be, uh, you know, one of those that just, you know, it's all about God's love. So I I, I would say for me, I start, I start trying to think of words that are gonna just capture both of them. Mm-hmm. Um, always. It's, it's the, both, both holidays that we celebrate, it's all about hope and light.

So if, if you, if you don't have those two things, doesn't matter what you put around it, it's uh, it's not, it's gonna miss the mark. So just don't, don't, I think, don't overcomplicate the two. Like, like Gene said, greatest stories ever told. So hang in those stories. Like this, this, this year I was part of a Christmas series, uh, with my good friend Chip down at a Pine Lake Church in Mississippi.

And he goes, Hey, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna look at Christmas this year from Matthew's Gospel. He goes, I haven't done one for Matthew's gospel. He goes, so we're gonna do four week series and I'm gonna take Herod. And Joseph and the wise men and you take the genealogies. Thanks dude. That really, that's great, man.

So I, I, but I gotta tell you, teaching the genealogy of Jesus were my favorite talks I've done the last five years. Yeah. It was just like, it was just cause the kind of people Jesus came for, the kind of people he came from, man. A jacked up family tree. So, you know, sometimes you'll find a hidden gem like that in the middle of.

Your, your Christmas planning, so

Mike Appel: mm-hmm. I, I think too, you know, a a a lot of churches don't think enough about what's coming after Christmas in Easter. That's good. And, and I, I would say that's as important or even more important than what you do on Christmas in Easter, because it's your opportunity to, to engage hearts and minds further that had a seed planted or watered at.

You know, you're probably biggest attended services of the year, so I think that what you do after is important. So I, I, like on Easter, I like to kick off a series on Easter when I can. Mm-hmm. And, uh, so this year I'm gonna, uh, piggyback on the, he gets this campaign, you know, that's national. Mm-hmm. A lot of people saw those Super Bowl commercials and everything like that, which is had really high engagement.

So I'm gonna do a series called He Gets This, and I'm gonna walk through for five or six weeks interactions that Jesus had with individuals that all lead, you know, to where that famous verse, John 20, you know, I write this, uh, so that you may believe that Jesus, you know, these things are all recorded so that you may believe.

So it's all with a goal of leading people to believe the, the final week of the series. In May, I'll, I'll do a doubting Thomas, you know, and, and. Hopefully see, you know, praying for a lot of evangelistic fruit.

Mike Breaux: That's so good. Yeah. That's, that's, that's great stuff. And you know, when, when you, when you lift up, uh, hope and light and freedom, it's great to give people a comeback.

And here's, here's how you get that in your life. You know, you may, you may come out of Christmas going, man, come back. We're gonna talk about walking a brand new direction. On January 8th or whatever, you know, starting to go, give you some practical steps to take to walk toward this new life. Same thing with Easter.

A lot of times we'll come out of Easter with a relationship series. Mm. Just saying, you know, there, there's hope. There's hope for your relationships, and we're gonna walk through a series where we're gonna talk about, you know, so I think Gene's exactly right. Right after your highest invite times, you know, give people, here's some next steps you can take.

Yeah. One

Rusty George: of the things that uh, I think a lot of us miss is we assume that if we put the advertisement for the next series in the pre-roll, uh, or even just in the announcements, then everybody's gonna get it. But Jean, I've learned from you cuz we often go to your Christmas service cuz you guys start, like, you know, in October.

Uh, so I can, I can roll down there and watch one. You incorporate the announcements of the next coming series, sometimes two series in your teaching, whether it's at the beginning or as an illustration of one of your points of, you know, here's one of the things that we wanna do to help you with this. So we're gonna spend four weeks talking about it.

Uh, which I thought, man, that's brilliant because that's when people are the most engaged and if it comes from your mouth, they feel like it's more valid. Um, and it really is another push towards people

Mike Appel: getting there. Yeah, it, it, that's strategic. I mean, you know, it's be very, very planned that way.

Rusty George: Yeah.

Well that's, uh, that's so good. You're right. I think all of us try to reinvent the wheel when it comes to, uh, Christmas and Easter. I remember Gene, one time I was at your place and it was the first time I ever experienced the whole silent night as the last song you guys sing. And it's a really a cool moment cuz it's very traditional.

Everybody wants the nostalgia at Christmas. And we got their flashlights out on your phone and all of that. It was awesome. So I come back to our church and the next year I said, we're gonna do like what he said did, we're gonna do silent night. Well, our. Our worship team is so sick at doing Christmas songs.

They, they're thinking, how do we do that in a creative way? And so they come up with, they come up with this arrangement no one can sing with, you know, and it's like everybody's just standing there with their flashlight. Oh, this is weird. So it became a great metaphor for me too. Hey, don't do that with the message

Mike Appel: either.

Come on. We, we, we, we do the, uh, the electric guitar Saturday Night Live version. Literally, that's the, the, the arrangement we do. It's just simple singable.

Rusty George: Absolutely. So good. Okay, so occasionally something happens in the world and you think we cannot. Not address this, this weekend. And sometimes it'd say, Hey, we need to pray for this, this weekend it was a school shooting.

It was an awful event that happened in our, in our country or even around the world. Or tornadoes happened to, you know, Mississippi or whatever it is. But sometimes it's so big you need to spend the whole time talking about it. Roe I remember back, uh, before nine 11, the week that nine 11 happened, we were at Southland together.

Jean, you were actually supposed to come in that weekend and teach for us. And you called up bro and said, I gotta be at my own place this weekend. And bro, I remember you, you said, we, we gotta call on Audible and we gotta teach on, you know, where's God through all this. And our communications department at Southland said, we've already printed the bulletins.

We, we have to keep it the same. And do you remember what the

Mike Breaux: title was? I can't remember. It was flying solo.

Rusty George: I mean, it was just, it would've been, oh wow.

Mike Appel: Perfect. So awful

Rusty George: to pass out.

Mike Breaux: And you said, I don't care how much it

Rusty George: costs. We're ditching the programs if we're going with to talk about this. So my question is, Back then, it seemed like that happened once a year, if not once every other year.

Nowadays it's every week. Yeah. There's almost something you could spend a message on. How do you know when it's big enough to punt on what you were going to do and do something specific

Mike Appel: for, for me, russy as that, as I was thinking about it. Know when you were gonna ask the question. In the, in the past 25 years, I can only think of twice that we completely punted.

And nine 11 was one of 'em, and the other was the week covid hit. And it not only altered that week, but it altered the series that we Hmm. Had planned moving forward. So it wasn't just like, Hey, we gotta punt this weekend. It's like, Hey, we gotta punt for the next month or so because of the, uh, magnitude.

That we're doing. However, there have been, you know, many, many occasions where the planning of the service is altered. Maybe the topic hasn't altered, and, and then you think about, you know, the, the pitch level that we need to address this issue with. And is that some spiritual direction moments at the front end of the message?

Is it gonna work itself into the sermon? Can we use our communion or worship or a prayer time? In the service, uh, to address this. Uh, we and I, I've done all those things, uh, at different times, and I think it's tricky because they're, you know, we've been through a, a three year period now where it just, or maybe longer for, just seems like there's, you know, big news all the time, uh, every week.

And it's, it's a tricky thing because if you over address things, uh, You know, it's kinda like, oh, what's the big news story of the week now? And, uh, and then what happens is it, it starts creating an expectation if you don't address something. Mm-hmm. For whatever reason, it's like, well, you didn't talk about this.

You know, you talked about that last week, but not about this, this week. And so I, I tend to probably be a little less responsive to some of the new stuff. Uh, then maybe, you know, some other churches and pastors do. I don't, I don't know how to, to evaluate that. And it, it's just trying to address when it's on everybody's mind.

When it's on everybody's, you know, th then it probably does. I don't think you have to pun that often. Honestly. I think you have to readjust, um, probably more often than you have to pump.

Mike Breaux: Totally agree with everything Jean said. Just, just we weaving things into the service that you already have planned.

Usually, you know, PE people walk away and, and they're gonna remember. You know that you talked about that, uh, e even though you didn't change everything around to talk about that, but you brought it up in, in the middle of your message or the way, the way, like Gene said, in a different worship moment or something like that, or a specific prayer time.

I think there's all kinds of ways to handle that. But I also think, you know, you know, including things in, in most messages, current things that are happening just as a. Maybe in, in a list of, you know, like you're doing some illustrative stuff, just throw something in there. It lets people be aware that you know what's going on in the world and that you care about what's going on in the world and mm-hmm.

Uh, still Jesus is the main, the main, uh, the subject matter. So I think there's a way to do that almost on a weekly basis where you can throw things in. Yeah.

Mike Appel: And you wanna make sure people. You know, the, the, the church built and uplifted and encouraged their soul. Yes. Not brought 'em down. They've got all week bringing, you know, they've got 24 7 news cycle, bringing 'em down all week.

So, man, we got a point of where the hope comes from and where they, that's, uh, need to stay directed to. That's so good.

Mike Breaux: Yep.

Rusty George: Our, uh, mutual friend Ricky Jenkins told me that he learned from. Kenton, be sure to wait six months to address a current event. Now what he means is to teach on it, not to pray about it or those kind of things, but I thought, boy, that is good wisdom because you think about it.

If we were talking about the election in 2020 during the election cycle, I mean, it's one thing to say, Hey, vote like Jesus, that kind of thing. But another thing to address certain big issues or even various cultural issues that we face right now. I, I found that waiting a while. Allows people to calm down.

Mm-hmm. And you can really speak to it in a way that's more levelheaded, in a way that's more caring, rather than coming across as, oh, you're taking a stand politically. And that's what you mean by that. Do you guys feel the same way? I.

Mike Breaux: Yeah, I think you could waste six years and people forget about it. So I think it's pretty good wisdom.

I've never heard that before. I, I like that. Yeah.

Mike Appel: I think it's good. Anytime there's a, I mean, I think you can address things from a spiritual, you know, prayerful, worshipful, hopeful standpoint without doing, you know, like you say, diving into the teaching on it. And I, and take politics for one. I never teach about politics around the election time.

I, I teach about politics, but I always do it removed from that time because people can't hear a word that you say apart from their partisan, you know, mind that's just preoccupied right in the intensity. And so what I try to do is prepare 'em at another time so that when that season comes, you know, they have, that's good values in teaching that can shape it.

That's good. Well,

Rusty George: I wanna ask one final question about all this, because you guys, um, have had so much, uh, you know, experience, but you've also had that opportunity to speak at other churches. Now, bro, I know you do this a lot, but. You all are so good at coming into the room and immediately building a bridge with the audience, which we all know that's, that's half the battle, uh, of trying to get them to connect with you so you can speak into their hearts.

For our listeners that have a chance to speak somewhere else, um, what are a few, Hey, always do this and, and never do this kind of moments, um, any, even some ways that you've whiffed in the past, or, uh, what are the things you need to know going in? So it's the best experience from a guest teaching perspective.

Mike Appel: Well, Mike's the expert on this man.

Rusty George: Doesn't it make you sick, gene? I mean, in, in like 30 seconds. He's connected with people I've, I haven't connected with in 20 years. It's just unbelievable.

Mike Appel: He's meeting them for coffee afterwards. He is, yeah.

Rusty George: They're calling him up. That changed my life. Thanks a lot. I baptized you.

That's cool.

Mike Breaux: Oh man. I, I think, um, I don't know if there's any. Secret to that type of, you know, engagement with people. I, I, I think, I think when, when, when any of us lose the wonder that we get to do this mm, then I think we start to think of ourselves too highly and we come off kind of as, Hey, I'm, I'm your feature guest speaker today.

You know, but, but when, you know, I can't, I can't believe people allow me to do this. Yeah, I can't believe that I get to do this full-time with my life, that God has called me to do this with my life. And, uh, it's just, uh, I can't imagine, you know, uh, the kind of person I would, I would be if I, if I felt like felt entitled or I tried to be some slick.

Guest speaker guys, some, you know, uh, award-winning author or what? You just downplay all that stuff, man. You just go, I'm just, I'm honored to be here. I'm, I'm just so grateful you have me and don't try to make it about you. You know, if you make it about Jesus, I'll forget about you. Remember him. So, yeah, there's probably a lot of things I could think through.

Uh, but, uh, I think that's the, the biggest thing. I think it's, I think it's true. Wherever you're at. I mean, you don't have to be a guest speaker. You know, every time you get up to to speak man, there ought to be, there ought to be humility and a real gratitude that you get to do this. And once you start down that entitlement road, or I'm, or I'm somebody or I'm an expert, or one of the, one of the things I try to intentionally put into every talk I do, I just, I just use a little phrase.

Cause I'm learn when I'll just say, I'm learning. And what that does is it allows people to, to know that I'm not an expert in anything, but here's something I'm learning, I'm learning. Like you guys are, we're on the same journey. Mm-hmm. Just, just incorporating those two little words into every talk, um, you know, and, and including yourself in vulnerable ways.

Uh, this past, this past weekend, I told a terrible story at East Side. About what something had happened to me on a flight. And uh, it was, it was painful for me to tell it, but I felt like it illustrated the point I was trying to make. And I certainly wasn't the star of the star of the show in that, in that story, that story.

But it did. It made people go, yeah, now I've done that too. Yeah, I've done that too. So I think there's just that being vulnerable and trying to be real and just staying humble

Mike Appel: about it all. Humility, self-effacing comments wins people really quick on your team. I mean, I can't remember how Mike says it exactly, but you know, I've him use the phrase, Guy from Kentucky who drives a pickup with bad knees and a beautiful wife.

Something like that. Yeah, something like that. And, uh, you know, and he just kinda, he, he's, he's a, he's an every man. And, uh, you know, I watch him, you know, and that's authentically who he is. I mean, that's not, you know, it's not just, uh, who he is. And, uh, I just, I think that's really a key. I think a couple other things that I, I would add, like, you know, I certainly don't guess speak near as much as Mike, but.

Um, you know, it always helps if you understand a little bit of their own internal language as a church. Like, you know. Mm-hmm. Maybe they use the term life groups and you use the term small groups. That's not a big deal, but it, it just kinda says you're an outsider, not an insider. And so I, I try to learn kind of what's their internal language a little bit.

Maybe they have a special phrase they call their volunteers or, or something like that, that you can encourage them. Uh, I, I, I'll typically when I'm going somewhere again, cause. You know, it's not as frequent, Mike, but I'll just ask the pastor, Hey, how can I help you? And how can I serve your church in ways that, you know, are there some values and some things that I could do?

I'll, I'll look for an opportunity. Again, you know, these are one-off things, you know, to really, how can I encourage the pastor in this message? How can I encourage the church and, and bless them? I had, we, we had, uh, Kristen, Christine Kane's been with us a few different times and. Remember a few years back we were having her just as we were going into a multisite uh, vision for the church and we.

Um, we, we had a Saturday night service and I was kind of getting nervous. It's like 15 minutes before the service and she hasn't showed up and 10 minutes before the service, here comes Christine, you know, and we sit down, uh, in, in a little office off the side of the stage. Just she goes, how can I serve you?

How can I serve you? And I just mentioned a few things about. You know, hey, we're, we're starting this multi-site vision and, you know, we're, we really have a dream of reaching some people in new places. And I mean, I had about 30 seconds to make that deposit in her. And I'm telling you, you would've thought she had prepared for a month to fire up, you know, our vision.

And I just so appreciated that, you know, she, you know, it was a simple question and, um, So I, I always try to do that, you know, how, how can I serve you? How can, how can I build up and serve the pastor? I think that's a win because, you know, I get to preach in some places where there are some really amazing Christian leaders, but they can't tell people they're amazing Christian leaders.

And sometimes people just. Just forget. And it's good to be say, Hey, do you know how great your pastor is? And, and, and what an influence, you know, he's had on my life and so many other church leaders. And, you know, your church is an example to some many others. You know, that that's something an outsider can say that an insider can't.

Mike Breaux: Yeah, I agree with that. And I also try to, you know, find out what they've been teaching, um, to, uh, every time I go somewhere, I'll, I'll try to listen to the message the, from the week before. Mm-hmm. So I'll be able to engage with the, Hey, last week Rusty talked about this. Uh, and next week we're gonna launch into this a series of, so I use, I use my one shot that I'm there to kind of tie everything together and.

And it does feel like even though you're, you're, maybe you're not there frequently, it feels like you're a part of it. Um, church in Mississippi is, is a great church, man. I, I love it, been doing it for a long time. But, um, a guy, a guy, uh, I teach there, uh, I think three times this year, so three or four times.

I do every year. And this guy, uh, was out in the lobby. Um, I was out in the lobby talking to people, which is another thing you ought to do. Just go talk to people. You know. It's, it's, it's, it's a good thing as a guest speaker, just, uh, to be out there just learning names and, you know mm-hmm. Bugging on people and stuff, but any, anyway, I was out in the lobby talking to people, and this guy comes over to me, he goes, Hey bro, come here for a second, man.

I wanna introduce my buddy. I brought him the day and he goes, Hey, hey. Hey, Luke, this is bro. And uh, he teaches here what, like 20 times a year. Is that right? And and I didn't wanna, I went yeah, something like that. I didn't wanna correct him in the moment, say, no, only three men, you know? But, but, but what that said to me is that because of the prep time of, of knowing what they've been ta talking about, knowing their church, knowing where they're going, it, it made 'em feel like I lived there.

And so just little things like that can, can, can, you know, go a long way and you don't. You don't. I really do. No matter where I go, I don't feel like a guest speaker Wherever I go, I feel like I'm home. So,

Rusty George: Yeah. I love that element that you do, bro. You've taught all of us. This is, use the phrase we, uh, it really does, uh, make you feel like you're part of the, of whatever's going on there.

And yeah, technically, you know, you're not necessarily, uh, there every week and those kind of things, but it is a, it's an all skate. Hey, we're all in this together. We've been talking through this. We're gonna do this next week, and really helps connect the dots for people. Well, guys, this has been amazing.

Thank you so much. I know you've helped out a lot of leaders today. Uh, thank you for all you do for all the churches, uh, around the country and the world. Uh, but thank you specifically for helping out, uh, our church in the many ways that you have. So God bless you guys. Love you both.

Mike Breaux: Love you both.

Mike Appel: Thanks guys.

Yeah, same here. Love you Rusty. Thanks for helping guys lead. Simple. Cause uh, all the coaching you're given is really helping a lot of us out here. Amen.

Mike Breaux: Well, I

Rusty George: love that stuff. I think these guys are amazing and have so much to teach us and I'm so, so grateful for them. I'm sure there's a pastor that you know will benefit from this, so make sure you share it with them.

If you've not subscribed to the podcast, do that wherever you get your podcasts and make sure that you're following along. Next week, we're back with a conversation with a pastor by the name of Adam Bishop, and this started off as what I thought would be a leading simple podcast, but turned into more of a simple faith one.

Because he talks about how to know when it's time to leave a job. He gives you five great questions to use as a way to evaluate when it's time to make a move. And so we're gonna put that up on these platforms next week, and you'll hear my conversation with Pastor Adam Bishop as we talk about. How do we make simple this idea of following God at whatever place he wants us to be in?

I think you're really gonna get a lot out of it. So thanks for listening, and as always, keep it simple.