The Rusty George Podcast

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Following Jesus isn't always easy, but it's not complicated. Join us each week as we work to make faith simple. This is simple faith. I'm your host, rusty George. So glad to have you with us. Hey, if you've ever transitioned from one job to the next, you probably need a little bit of an assistance of how do I think through that?

How do I process that? When do I know it's the right time to go? Well, I've just interviewed a friend of mine as he's transitioning from one job to the next. He had such great insight into asking the questions, figuring out. God is in this, what does God want him to do? Or is this one of those things where God's saying, Hey, I'll bless you.

Either way you go. You choose. Adam Bishop is the new pastor at New Hope Church out in the Raleigh Durham area. This is a great church. I have a chance to speak there several years ago, and I've gotten to meet Adam over the past few years. Uh, due to our connection through a great leadership coaching organization.

Called courageous pastors. I ask him about that and about how to manage change through transitions. Here's my conversation with Adam Bishop. Adam Bishop, great to have you on the podcast. Uh, welcome. Uh, for our listeners that don't know who you are, tell us a little bit about

Adam Bishop: yourself. Yeah. And thanks for having me, uh, rusty.

I'm super excited to get to be with you today. Um, we spent some time together, uh, earlier this year, uh, doing some leadership training and that was, uh, a lot of fun. But, uh, I've been in ministry for 23 years. Uh, married to my wife Morgan for 20. We have three boys, uh, 13, 11, and seven. And, uh, they keep us busy.

So other than pastoring your church and all that, Is involved with that. I coach their basketball teams and their football teams, and my youngest is a golfer too, so that's been kind of fun watching him. I learn how to play golf and so we stay super busy, um, as a family and, uh, like I said, just excited to get to be with you here today.

Rusty George: Well, that's awesome. And you, uh, as some of our listeners are probably figuring out from your accent, you, um, are from the south. Uh, tell us a little bit about kinda where you grew up. Went to school and then now have been pastoring.

Adam Bishop: Yeah, so, uh, I pastor currently in the state of Alabama, but I grew up, um, in the state of Georgia.

And I, I want to connect those dots because I'm a huge Georgia Bulldog fan, rusty, and, uh, there's never been a better time to live in the state of Alabama as a Georgia Bulldog fan than now. So That's right. So our church really can't say a lot to me with. Two straight national championships, but my wife and I both grew up in the metro Atlanta area.

That's home. Uh, our, most of our family is still there. Mm-hmm. But, uh, we have moved around quite a bit, um, in ministry. Spent some time in New York City, some time in Denver, Colorado. And then, uh, a while back kind of made our way back, um, here to the southeast where we've been now. The great state of Alabama for the last five years.

Rusty George: Well, we're recording this at a time when you're about to go through another, uh, big life transformation as well. By, uh, moving out to North Carolina in the Raleigh Durham area and taken over a church, uh, that's a great church, uh, called New Hope, and I've had a privilege to speak there before and just really great people.

Uh, I'm curious because a lot of our listeners, uh, lead churches. There's that weird dance of knowing when to leave. Um, you know, you, you look at a, a coaching legacy and there's some times that you begin to lose the locker room or you begin, your voice isn't as strong with the, you know, with the, uh, team as it was before.

And I think that happens in churches. I think there's times when it's time for somebody different. And then you have people that stay 20 and 30 years. How did you know it was time to go? Because I think a lot of our people, you know, are curious about that.

Adam Bishop: Yeah, that's great. And um, I can say two things can be equally true at the same time.

One, you can not be looking to leave like really love where you're at, really enjoy what God is doing. And that's certainly been the season of ministry we've had here. We've never had more fun. It's been incredible. Uh, but what can also be equally true is back to that original calling Rusty, that all of us experienced.

For me it was at, at the age of 18. Hmm. And I can remember when I felt called to ministry great men of God who coached me and counseled me through that season. And one of the things they really planted deep into my heart was that the call to ministry is first and foremost a call to availability. And so while we can be extremely, I.

Grateful and excited about where we are at. We always know in the back of our mind that there is this call to availability. And so really, the, the probably much longer answer than you're looking for started for me, uh, last summer. So, uh, June of last year we were on a family vacation. And, um, I don't know why I hadn't anticipated this happening, but when June 1st happened on the calendar, it hit me that I had been in full-time ministry for 22 years.

And at the time I was 43 years old, I started a full-time ministry when I was 21, and I did quick little maths, not a strong suit of mine, but I realized, you know, if I do this until I'm 65, you know, I don't know how long God will give me, but that's an age some folks choose to retire. That means I'm halfway done.

Yeah, yeah. And it kind of caught me off guard, like, how did this happen so quickly? And so what I did was I just took the month of June and I really just took that before the Lord in prayer and in many ways stated what I just said to you. God, our family loves it here. We love the church. We're in the people, the community and, uh, God, but I'm, I'm, I'm halfway done and God, I just wanna revisit that call to availability and just state before you Lord, that if this is where you have us for the duration, our yes is on the table, but God as always, I'm available.

And if you ever lead me somewhere else, as much as we love it here, you know, our Yes is on the table. And so when a good friend who I've known for a long time reached out. Uh, several months ago about this opportunity. He just quite simply said, Hey, I've known you for a long time. I know this church really well.

I think that you should look into this. Hmm. And immediately my heart went back to that prayer of last summer, and I felt like to be faithful to that prayer that I should at least say Okay. And, and, and be open and pray about it. And then, um, over time, and we can talk a little bit more specifically about what are the, some of the things God showed me over that time, God did begin to reveal to me that this was a step that he was leading me to take.

Rusty George: Well, I think that's a, that's a great question for us to dive into cuz a lot of people, you know, whether you're in ministry or not, you start reading into things and reading the tea leaves, so to speak. And, and somebody said this to me, does that mean I'm supposed to go? Or, uh, I turned on the TV and it said Colorado.

Is that where I'm supposed to move? You know, those kind of things. So, uh, you know, what were some of those things that were key indicators

Adam Bishop: for you? Yeah, and I think foundationally, we, we all do need to revisit our theology of calling, and I think all of God's people are called to a ministry. I think God gifts the body and he uses us.

I grew up in a home where my dad had his own business and I saw him through that business, disciple men, um, and, and just make a huge kingdom impact. And so calling transcends whether or not we're pastors or, or some of the labels that we use, but for those of us who are specifically in ministry, when it comes to calling, I, I, I felt.

Like the Lord over time has kind of helped me figure out that I, I probably look at this a little differently and so when I heard Larry Osborne say something, it freed me up. Cause if Larry Osborne says it, then I think we're okay. It's true. The difference between a game plan and a blueprint, you know, I probably would've said when I started in ministry, I had a little bit more of a blueprint mentality.

You know, God will show me this and then God will do this and it'll just kind of build its way. It'll be super clear. But, you know, over 23 years, I can tell you it's a little bit, been a little bit more like a game plan. Being called to ministry. I feel like there is some freedom. You know, I think of traveling, you know, you're in Southern California.

I grew up in metro Atlanta. There's interstates with, you know, eight, 10 lanes. I think in ministry sometimes, you know, you, you, you can change some lanes. I think God gives us some freedom, but just don't take an exit ramp. You know, just don't get outta the game, you know, stay in ministry. But for me, the five things that the Lord's kind of led me through in this season, And I think it's a really helpful, uh, matrix paradigm, whatever language you want to use to run these decisions through.

For those of us who are in full-time ministry, you know, the first thing you know is, is there alignment with this particular church and with me, not just theologically, but method, methods of ministry, you know, a lot of ways that is what distinguishes churches and gives them kind of their unique flavor.

So one is their alignment there too, is their fit with the people. And church is a people, you know, so is a fit with the staff, with the board, with the people who are already there at the church. Three, is there a fit with the place, not just its geographical location, but the culture of the people? Can I be on mission there?

You know, some of us are wired better to be on mission and. Urban settings or rural settings or suburban settings. And so I think that there's gotta be a fit there. Fourth, I think there's gotta be a fit for my kids. Um, you know, we get to do ministry for a very long time. We have such a short window that we raise our kids.

And so for the 18 years that. They're in our home, wherever we are, I want it to be a place that they can thrive. And then fifth, is this a place that will allow us to meet our needs financially? And none of us got into ministry for the money. And we're not trying to, you know, make money off of church. But there are financial needs and those vary depending on particular regions of the country and cost of living.

And so as you go through that checklist, if you begin to see alignment in each one of those, then ultimately I think the key question is, Based on where this church is at the season they're in, uh, the needs that are, uh, there, did God wire me to step in and serve them? Well, you know, God does not give churches to pastors.

He gives pastors to churches. We're called to love and to lead and to serve. And so I think a lot of times that's where you'll see a pastor who's an amazing man of God or a woman of God, incredibly gifted, um, able to lead, do a lot of different things. But the particular season the church is in that gift set may not exactly be what's required or what's needed.

And so if enough people who are sitting around the table that are making these decisions see alignment in all of those areas, and the Holy Spirit is bringing unity to that. Then I believe that is about as close as you can get to the Lord saying, go. You know, ultimately we're all doing this by faith. You know, ultimately we're all, uh, moving forward by faith and, and trying to seek God's guidance on that.

But our family went through that process and God gave us alignment in each one of those things. And as I shared with my church family here, uh, it. It was a decision where to not go, we felt would be disobedient, which was the only reason we did choose to move forward because again, we love our people here.

We love our church family here, and they have been just incredibly supportive and encouraging to us in this season, which we will be forever grateful for. But that paradigm was super helpful for us to just kinda walk through in this season. Mm, that's

Rusty George: so good. I love that this wasn't even on the notes.

This is just fresh, uh, uh, really great stuff. Um, when you told your church, I assume you started with your elders or board, however you guys do your, your polity, but when, when you told them, how'd you break that news? Because you know, you've been thinking about it for a few months now. They've never been thinking about it at all.

And it's a little bit like, Hey, uh, I don't wanna bury the lead here, but here's what's going on. Do you start with the journey? Do you start with the announcement? How, how'd you communicate this?

Adam Bishop: That's, that's such a good word, rusty, because you're right. You know, I've been praying and processing this and, and all of a sudden they're going to be made aware of this, um, with, without really any warning because again, our, our church is an amazing season and, and we're all enjoying doing this together.

So I prayed about this a lot and, and ultimately what I felt like the Lord led me to. And, and, and it went really well was I met with our board on a Sunday after our last service. And, um, my goal was for that meeting to be 15 to 20 minutes and to just tell them, here's exactly what's happened. You know, don't bury the headline.

You know, don't try to ease your way into it. Just tell them that. And, and, and the reason why I felt like that was important was because I knew with confidence that this is what the Lords called me to do. And so I wanted to share that and share my heart. But what I also wanted to do is give room for emotions, give room for reactions, give room for what would happen in that space without making that team feel like that.

They immediately had to go into decision making mode, immediately go into leadership mode, immediately go into planning mode. And so the way I, I said that to them was, I wanted to share this with you today. And then clearly give us an opportunity, um, to think, pray for a second, and then we're gonna meet back up here tomorrow night at seven o'clock, and we're gonna begin the journey tomorrow night at seven o'clock of putting together a plan of next steps to move, uh, to take moving forward.

And, uh, that's good for each of them. I felt like that they appreciated that they each gave me a hug on their way out. There were a few tears that were shed, but I know that team so well. 24 hours later, when we showed up at that room at seven o'clock, all of us were there to do what was best for our church because we love this church.

Hmm. And I had brought an agenda to kind of drive that time with some decisions that needed to be made. That's good. And obviously submitted that agenda and that process to them and allowed them to speak into it. And it was tweaked and changed. And ultimately when we left that meeting that night, we had a game plan for how to proceed moving forward with communication and with leadership decisions.

And so it went really well to kind of break that up into two different times.

Rusty George: Wow. That is such a smart decision because otherwise it's just a man. It, it's not just a ripping off of the bandaid. It's a, uh, it, it's a brand new wound that you've created. Uh, and allow people some time to process. Right. Boy, that's, that's

Adam Bishop: really good.

And then with our church family, I did. I recorded a video. Uh, we just feel like we're in a season now, and I think this is true for every church to tie communications to our Sunday services is really unwise because people's lives are so busy. I mean, our most faithful. Folks at our church may only be there twice a month.

Right? And, and we don't necessarily see that as them saying the church isn't a priority, it just means that they're busy. And so I recorded a video that we then sent out on a Tuesday, um, to everyone in our church. We then sent it again on Wednesday just to make sure. And then I made myself incredibly available for the rest of that week.

It just so happened I was a chaperone at the zoo for a field trip, so I was there with lots of people. The next day was field day at the elementary school. So I'm there with lots of people and by the time we got to Sunday, I, I mean, I had, you know, talked to a lot of people individually, and a lot of people were, I was able to talk to them immediately when they saw me on Sunday Hug and, and Rusty, I was just so encouraged.

I've always loved our church family, but to hear them say things like, we're, we're, we're proud of you for being obedient. We're going to miss you, but we know that God's gonna continue to lead us moving forward. And that's every pastor's dream, right? You know, we we're not trying to connect people to us, we're trying to connect them to God and his people.

And so that has really blessed my heart to hear that in this season. And I really believe that the best days, uh, for this church are, are ahead. And so I'm excited about

Rusty George: that. Hey, let me interrupt for just a second. If you're a church leader and your church does not have an app, or your app seems to be a little bit limited, check out subsplash.com as a great resource to really give your app all the horsepower that it needs.

You can connect people, you can help them get access to messages, and you can help them set up recurring giving, which is a game changer when it comes to resourcing your ministry. Sub slash.com. Okay. Back to our episode. That's incredible. This is such good insight. All right. I wanna, I wanna shift gears a little bit because you have been highly influenced by a couple of leaders that some of our listeners will know.

One of which has been a guest on the podcast and has become a friend of mine as well. But you know, you, you've, you've picked up resources, just kind of intellectual capital from these guys and, uh, one of them is a guy named, uh, Nelson Searcy. Um, n Nelson is a guy that I believe he worked with Rick Warren for a while, then planted a church in New York, and now has this amazing coaching network where he supports pastors and, uh, has done incredible work.

And his little books on the systems of the church have been. Highly influential for our church. You had a chance to really work with him and get to know him. Tell me some of the things that you learned from Nelson and that you're still implementing today. I mean,

Adam Bishop: I, I don't even know where to start. I mean, so I could go on and on about Nelson, but lemme see if I can make a correlation that, that, um, maybe be a little closer to home for you.

So I have to ask you a question. Are you a Chargers fan or a Rams fan?

Rusty George: Uh, I'm a Kansas City Chiefs fan. Okay. All right. The

Adam Bishop: rest do not matter. Good for, you're talking about the best days to be a fan of your team,

Rusty George: so, uh, that's awesome. Oh, I've lived through some horrible days, so I'm due, it's

Adam Bishop: all coming back around.

That's so fantastic. Yes. Well, I'm a big fan of Shawn McVay. Okay. So I don't have a rooting interest for the Rams of the Chargers, but I like Shawn McVey and I'll, I'll give you a little Sean McVey trivia. In 2003, he was the Gatorade High School football player of the year in the state of Georgia. And the guy who finished second was Calvin Johnson Megatron.

Wow. The Detroit Lions that Shawn McVey was a better high school football player than Calvin Johnson in the state of Georgia. Wow. So, uh, literally little Shawn McVey, uh, trivia. Well, I love his, his career because when he got outta college, he immediately started coaching for John Gruden and then he started coaching for the Shanahan's and he got these amazing opportunities and then eventually he.

Got the opportunity as a head coach and obviously he is doing a fantastic job. And, you know, I think about my years in ministry and I am no Shawn McVey, but I have been blessed to serve under some great men. I, God. And I never had to build a playbook. I just took all of their plays and put 'em together.

And, and that really began with Nelson Ccy. Nelson hired me. Um, For a job I wasn't qualified for. I had never been a small groups pastor. I was a youth pastor, but he saw something in me that could be developed and cultivated, and then he invested in me at a high level. Um, I was working with Nelson when I became a dad, and, and he took me under his wing as someone who had a young son at the time and showed me the ropes for how to be a dad living in the city with, with a newborn child and how to manage that.

You know, now you're a dad and now you're married, and now you're a pastor. How can you make sure that you have a healthy marriage and. You have a healthy child as he grows up, and I'll just be forever grateful for that investment alongside the ch the church stuff, because when it comes to church systems and the way that he thinks about church, I just had never been around anyone like that.

And, and, and what was so amazing Rusty, was to see the fruit of that. Mm-hmm. And, and Nelson would be the first to say that while he might actually be someone that people associate with systems, it's not necessarily the systems, it's the fruit that the systems produce. And when you see the fruit, that's what gets you excited about the systems.

And we certainly got to see that for four years. In New York City with countless, I mean hundreds of people coming to faith in Jesus Christ, baptizing them, officiating weddings, uh, for people who would meet in our church. And, uh, and so Nelson has been a huge influence on me and the way I think about church and all these years later, continues to be a, a mentor and a friend.

And he really is a gift to the kingdom and a gift to the church.

Rusty George: Yeah, I think his book on, um, activate, uh, his book on Ignite. These are all, he has these, I think, eight systems of how a good church functions. Mm-hmm. You know, from outreach to, uh, you know, guest mobilization, all these kind of things. It's so brilliant and so, so helpful.

But my, my favorite Nelson Sealy story is when I heard you tell over dinner about when you were supposed to preach on a weekend, I. You gotta tell our, our listeners that story. It's so

Adam Bishop: great. Again, I'm in my late twenties, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm living in New York City, I'm doing ministry and, and they're gonna let me preach on a Sunday, which shows you how much, you know, faith they had Yeah.

In me. And it was a week where we were at a conference there in the city, and so our work week was a little out of normal, the, the weekly schedules and different things like that. And I kind of just kept putting it off. You know, I'll, I'll get around writing that sermon, I'll get around writing that sermon.

Right? And I had no plan. I mean, there was no structure to my week. You know, I'm just making up as I go. Nelson certainly worked all of that out of me over time, whereas now I'm, I'm, I'm incredibly structured, but I wasn't at that time. And so we have a little break at the conference and I, I wanna say it was like Thursday.

I mean, it's the end of the week. So to Nelson's credit, like he, he's kind of starting to wonder, where's the sermon you're supposed to preach? So he asked me, how's the sermon coming? And I said, well, I haven't started yet. He said, well, when are you planning on writing the sermon? He said, because you know, we're gonna be again at this conference all day tomorrow.

And then, you know, we have Saturday, which is our Sabbath. And then we were, you know, we honored the Sabbath and he gave us rest, which I was very grateful for. And I said, well, I was gonna write on Saturday because you know, I know we have to be at the conference here tomorrow. And he just kind of sat there for a second and he was incredibly gracious with me, um, in hindsight, thinking of all the things I did.

And he just said, so you're gonna write your sermon. On, on the Sabbath, you're gonna be working on the Sabbath. And and, and I'm like, yeah, you know, it's right on Sa I, you would think I'd pick up on this, right? He kept saying Sabbath over and over. He was giving me a chance, but I didn't see it. And finally he said, well, you know what?

He said, I'm not so sure there's a lot of wisdom with us letting a known center preach in the pulpit on Sunday.

And I kinda looked at him and he said, isn't. Honoring the Sabbath, one of the 10 Commandments. And I said, yes it is. And he goes, and didn't Jesus say that God created the Sabbath for man? It's actually a gift for us. And he said, but you, you are gonna clearly violate the Sabbath in order to do God's work.

He said, that's not a helpful thing to do. And the best I can tell you're being a known sinner. And uh, I immediately got the message. I left the conference and went to my office and I started working on that sermon. But it's a lesson that has stuck with me for years because, you know, in ministry, We can, we can justify, oh, it's not that big a deal.

We're, we're doing ministry, we're writing sermons. We're, we're taking care of people and over time it will wear us down. And he, he just helped me get that principle planted in my heart. It's a gift. And so what I started doing Rusty then was I started structuring my weeks a lot better. You know, it's amazing how if you know you're gonna take a Sabbath, you structure the other days a lot better to be more productive.

And so it was an invaluable lesson. Given to me in a way that makes a great story to share,

Rusty George: grateful for it. I that, and I'm just thinking about from his perspective now, I think he's probably one that's not, not afraid for a confrontation, but some of us are. And if he had not done that, You would not be telling that story now, nor would you have that life lesson.

You might have learned it the hard way later on down the road, but man, what a great, you know, kind of a swift kick that you got. Right? That became a life lesson for you later. I think that's, that's fantastic.

Adam Bishop: One of the things we talked about a lot, cuz he, he, he was, he was one of the best I've ever around at doing this, of help delivering lessons in a way where it, it softened the blow, but you got the lesson we talked about the way Nathan confronted David.

I mean, what great wisdom for Nathan to tell a story, right? And then say, behold the man, you're the man. And so in leadership, sometimes when we do have to confront some things we would prefer not to, there's a way we can do it where we get the point across and we don't beat up the person. And I think when we look for those like Nathan, when we look for those examples in God's word, we can't see some good guidance there.

Rusty George: Wow. That is incredible. Okay, so. Nelson Searcy's, one of them. I've not had him on the podcast though. I would love to if you can pull some strings. All right. But here's, here's the second one, A mutual friend of ours, Sean Lovejoy, uh, who runs an incredible coaching network, uh, courage to lead courageous pastors.

He does great stuff. Uh, Used to lead a megachurch on his own, now helps other church leaders and leaders. Um, you met him at some point and it basically had a major impact on your life and, and he has been a guest on the podcast and, uh, we'll link to that. But, uh, it's incredible individual. What have you learned from Sean over the years?

Adam Bishop: So Rusty, I went from serving on Nelson's staff to serving on Shawn's staff back to back. So I was on Shawn's staff, uh, for several years as a small groups and teaching pastor. And again, invaluable lessons. Uh, let me tell you, beyond the church stuff, which we can obviously talk about, if it weren't for Shawn Lovejoy, I don't know if I'd still be in ministry.

Really, um, when I was serving with Shawn, we had our second child. Um, I'm trying to finish seminary online classes. I'm trying to work at a church and at some point, man, I, I just hit a wall and we've all been there in ministry for me. This was about 12 years ago. I just hit a wall and I remember like just sitting with Shawn one day and I, we've got 57 things that need to be done at our church, just like everybody's church.

But he could tell something was off and he, and he loved me enough to go there. And, and ask me what's going on, man? Let's talk about the real things right now. And he drew it out of me. Mm-hmm. Because in my pride and in my stubbornness, I didn't want to tell him that I felt like I hit a wall, but he drew it out of me.

Yeah. Because he loved me. And then he had the wisdom to guide me to a counselor who specialized in talking with pastors. Mm. And I went and I met with that counselor. So, And the counselor said to me, all of you pastors fascinate me. And I was like, I don't think you're supposed to say that you pastors, that's kind of mean language, you know?

I was like, what are we talking about here? And he said, no, seriously. He said, you guys think that God called you to do this? I'm like, well, yeah. Why else would we be doing it? He goes, okay, so one, you think God talks to you. He goes, two. You actually think that God wants to use you to change the world. I said, absolutely.

I said, you know what, Virginia? And he said, that's why I love you so much. But here's the question he asked me, rusty, it rocked me. He said, have you ever stopped to consider the emotional toll that's taken on you? Wow. And I said, no. And he said, well, that's why you're with me. Because you've never stopped to consider that.

And that's, that's where why you are, where you're at. And he began to help me put together a plan to kinda get my life back in order, so to speak, at a soul level. At a heart level. Mm-hmm. Um, to do ministry at a high level to. I have a wife that we are still crazy in love with each other, again, to and, and what you're seeing, rusty, the common thread here is I needed a lot of help.

God gave me men like Nelson seriously, and Shawn Lovejoy to help me cuz I would get off track. And so years later when Shawn started courageous pastors courage to lead. And he called me and said, you know, hey, would you be willing to help me do this? First of all, I was completely honored, but I I, I said to him, Sean, if you wanna do for pastors at a large scale, what you did for me individually, I'm in, sign me up, whatever I can do to help.

Because there's a lot of guys, and again, ladies, people in ministry out there that were where I was at, they'd hit a wall. They didn't know what step to take and so, Um, yes, for the last six years I've been working with Sean to coach pastors and we do a lot of trainings together. We do a lot of coaching together.

He continues to be an incredible mentor and friend, uh, to me and in many ways continue to serve as that coach for me, who will call me out on some stuff when I need to be called out on it and, or, or check in with Morgan, my wife, to see how I'm really doing when it comes to loving her well. And so again, Shawn has just been incredible.

Uh, continues to be a great friend. Friend. I'm super

Rusty George: grateful for him. You know, I'm, I'm thinking about our listeners right now who are thinking, boy, what, what a valuable resource you've been giving given in two different individuals. And they might be thinking, I, I didn't get a chance to know Nelson Cy or, or Shawn Lovejoy.

What would you say to them about keeping their eyes open for who God might be putting in their path?

Adam Bishop: Ultimately, all of us are conduits for the people that God has brought into our paths. And I do think that's one of the great values in coaching. It's, it's the reason why I'm so passionate about serving with Shawn to coach because we, there's 17 of us that coach, we all do it one on one.

Uh, we all do it like this or in person once a year, and their churches of different sizes, different denominations. Uh, it's not a, a financial. Um, it's not a financially too much, but it is financially a sacrifice, which I have found there's a direct correlation between sacrifice and fruit. And so we, we, we certainly don't apologize for that, but what happens when you get a coach is you get access to another conduit who has different life experiences, different mentors, um, different.

Perspectives on ministry. Mm-hmm. And that's gonna make you better. And again, one of the reasons I love doing it is because the guys that I technically coach, they make me better. Mm-hmm. I mean, they help me as a, as a husband, as a dad, as a pastor. These guys have become close friends. Mm. I mean, we've far left behind the whole coaching dynamic.

We're, we're brothers in arms. And so I would say if that's where you're at, whether it's courage to lead or any other organization that allows you the opportunity to rub shoulders with some people that perhaps. Your life experience didn't give you that opportunity. Mm-hmm. But Rusty, that's the story of the church.

Yeah. I mean, the great thing of the church is the church supplies for us. What our family of origin never supplied. Mm-hmm. That's what the church looks like. Well, it's that, it's like that for us as pastors as well. Maybe you haven't had the. Benefit of working for some of the same men I did. But you can benefit from people who have, by establishing relationships with them.

And so you've gotta be a little proactive. You've gotta seek it out. You gotta have some intentionality. But I do think there's great fruit in that. Hmm.

Rusty George: That's such a good word. Well, I'm grateful for our time together today, Adam. Uh, this has been. So good, uh, for all of us just thinking about how God leads us, how God puts people around us and guides us into what's next.

Uh, I'm excited for your next, uh, role and what you're gonna be doing, uh, as your new, uh, venue. And it's just an incredible congregation waiting for you. Uh, would you tell our listeners one more time just how to get in touch with a coach through courage to lead, um, just to kind of promote a little bit about what you guys offer and how they can be a beneficiary

Adam Bishop: of it.

Yeah. And, and, and the great thing about this is some of, some of you listening may know of some marketplace leaders in your church. And so we offer coaching not just for pastors, but also for marketplace leaders and, and literally every type of imaginable industry. And one of our coaches, Russy, is actually out and.

Southern California, they coach as marketplace leaders, and so that'd be an easy connection to make. But courage to lead.com is where you can really be geared more towards the marketplace. Coaching courageous pastors is where we really focus on coaching with the pastors. And so if you were to go to either of those websites and just fill out a simple little form, 30 seconds or less.

We would schedule kind of an initial just session for free where we get to hear you hear your story, here's some of the challenges you're facing. Here's a key question we ask. What's keeping you up at night? That's, we all know the answer to that. And then from there, begin to develop a plan. Find the coach that we feel is the best fit for you.

Again, we have 17 and so that's not a challenge to do cuz we've got guys of multiple different spaces across the country and then we're off and running. I mean, from the first session we're already beginning to diagnose. Some things and put together an actionable plan and uh, I really think it'd be a great step to take if that's where you are.

Rusty George: I love that. Adam, thank you so much for your time. God bless you at your next place and the people you leave behind and what he's gonna do there. And I appreciate you being a guest on the show.

Adam Bishop: Thank you, esy. Enjoyed it.

Rusty George: Well, thanks so much Adam. That was such great information. I'm sure those of you that listen to it think, boy, I got somebody that needs to hear that.

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