The Rusty George Podcast

0:00:00 - Rusty George
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Following Jesus isn't always easy, but it's not complicated. Join us each week as we work to make faith simple. This is simple faith. Do you know what EQ is? Do you know if you have it? It's this buzz term that a lot of people have been using for now many years, called emotional intelligence or emotional quotient EQ. How do you know if you have it? How do you know if you've hired somebody with it? What do you look for in somebody with it? Today, we're going to find out more about that. You know, following Jesus isn't always easy, but it's not complicated and each week we try to make faith simple. And this is simple faith.

I'm your host, rusty George. I had a chance to meet an incredible pastor by the name of Kevin Lloyd, out from the Carolina area, and he is going to help us not just with some ministry stuff and coaching stuff, but also in helping to define this buzz term of EQ. What is it, how do you find it, how do you spot it and how do you have it. I think you're really going to be blessed by my conversation with Kevin Lloyd. I want to thank our friends at Subsplash for their sponsoring of the podcast. What a blessing they are to so many people. I encourage you to check them out for all resources for your church. But now here is my conversation with pastor Kevin Lloyd. Kevin Lloyd, thank you so much for joining us. Glad to have you on the show. For our listeners that don't know you, tell us a little bit about yourself, yeah thank you, rusty.

0:02:25 - Kevin Lloyd
It's an honor to be with you guys. I love the pod. I am a listener, I'm a part of your audience as well, so that's the first thing.

0:02:33 - Rusty George
Thank you.

0:02:33 - Kevin Lloyd
Yeah, I don't know if there's royalties that I can get from that, but I'll take it if there are. But yeah, but no. So yeah, my name is Kevin Lloyd. I'm an executive pastor at LifePoint Church in Wilmington, North Carolina.

If you don't know where Wilmington is, we're the complete opposite side of the country from you, rusty, we're on the other ocean, so we're a beach town, we are, and you and I were talking about this off camera, but we are where Outer Banks is kind of set and filmed and all that stuff. So if you don't know us for anything else, we're known for that. But but I've LifePoints. We're a multi-site church. We're four campuses now and just moving fast and furious.

I've landed here after being executive pastor at kind of multiple churches really across the country. I've been in San Diego, I was in Augusta, georgia, for a long time and and then here in Wilmington, and so God's been good to us. I've been married for 25, almost 25 years and in ministry for the same amount of time, and so we really it's what we know, it's who we are, it's what we do, and and God's just been good to us. Yeah, so that's that's kind of how we are, our quick path, without going all the way back to our mother's womb of how we got to where we are today.

0:03:52 - Rusty George
You know, I remember I lived in Lexington, Kentucky, for a while and everything hinged on UK basketball, university of Kentucky basketball. Yeah, when you're living in Augusta, Georgia, does everything revolve around the masters.

0:04:07 - Kevin Lloyd
So for one week out of the year, yeah, for the rest of the country it does all the time. For Augusta, you know it's one of those things that I would say it's a point of pride. I mean, you know they say it's a tradition like no other and that's true and it kind of bleeds through that community like it's very much in the best way possible. You know, a tradition that that takes a lot of pride in that. But oddly enough it doesn't revolve around as much as you would think. Okay, okay, it's even where the national is at is just in a different part of town, it's not. It's not where most people live, but where it really kind of like hits home is the weeks leading up to it. Spring break is that week. Most locals leave town that week and rent houses out and do all the stuff. When you go to Disney World on Masters week is where you see everyone from Augusta.

So yeah, so that's kind of the way it rolls there.

0:05:03 - Rusty George
Interesting. Okay, I guess the rest of the country, that's all we know.

0:05:06 - Kevin Lloyd
Augusta for that's all you know Exactly, that's all you guys.

0:05:08 - Rusty George
Right, exactly Right. So now you're in another city that's suddenly become known for something that the rest of us only see on TV, which is outer banks, which our listeners may or may not have watched that show on Netflix. If you have junior, high or high school age girls, you probably have Right. But you know, tell us a little bit about how, just how accurate is that show based upon where you live? I mean, is it a true representation?

0:05:34 - Kevin Lloyd
We don't use the language. Kooks and pokes, I think, is what they say. We don't really use that language around here. Yeah, I would say it's an accurate representation of some of the surf culture. Okay, that's probably a good way to say it. But you know, it's like anything they wrote a little bit of. It is romanticized. I think it's pretty much about high school kids that live with no parents and that kind of stuff like it. None of that's real, right, but there's no treasure hunting that's going on around here. That I know of.

One cool thing about Wilmington this is not an outer banks thing, but Wilmington because of where we're at. We're sort of the outer banks in Wilmington are sort of on that furthest point of North Carolina out into the Atlantic, and Wilmington has a really deep river that runs through the city. Well, because of both of those things, back in the 1700s, whenever it was, they were around, wilmington was frequented by pirates, and so some of the most famous pirates would hide their ships in the river the Cape Fear River here to get away from the British, and because of that they would camp out here for years. And so today there's a lot of descendants of Blackbeard the pirate. His name's Edward Teach. We actually had a guy in our church who was. His last name is Teachy and he's a direct descendant of Blackbeard the pirate. So a lot of the famous like and Bonnie and all those those famous pirates like have roots in Wilmington.

0:07:01 - Rusty George
So oh my word, that is so cool.

0:07:05 - Kevin Lloyd
It's one of the like interesting things from here.

0:07:08 - Rusty George
So, yeah, oh, my goodness, I guess you just. I always thought those were fairy tales and you have direct descendants of them in your church.

0:07:16 - Kevin Lloyd
So I don't. I don't know about Jack Sparrow, but some of the rest of them.

0:07:19 - Rusty George
Oh, I like to believe he's real. So how'd you get into the role of being an executive pastor? Because a lot of people don't come out of seminary thinking that's what I want to do.

0:07:29 - Kevin Lloyd
That's a great question. So for me, I kind of asked myself the same question Sometimes. I was a youth pastor, so I coming out of men, out of school, that's what I did, it's what I felt called to do, like a lot of guys. It's kind of how I got started and I had been. I've been doing that for about five years, maybe six, and we were with our team, our church at the time in Georgia. We were right around that thousand person mark. We were kind of in that, that ballpark and you know, with any growing church there comes a place where, like, you need someone.

I don't know if you've ever read the book the Synergist. It's a book by Les McKeown and he really talks about kind of that person that's kind of helping jail everything. And we didn't have that and so, um, we were sitting around with our leadership team there were four of us. We took a spiritual gift survey and somehow I scored higher on administration than I guess anyone thought that I would. And I'll be honest, rusty, I think I either cheated or something on the desk, because I don't feel that way at all. But my senior pastor just kind of looked at that, looked at what he knew of me, and I think he knew that student ministry was not my forever and I felt that, too, I had kind of been feeling that, and he just he kind of threw it out there and said, hey, listen, I need somebody who can stand in the middle and be like Spider-Man, holding the things together, you know, and would that be something you'd be willing to step into?

And and it was a challenging season I mean the first, the things that I knew nothing about, which were like church finance and how to raise money and how to manage money and how to how. What I was good at was people, and I think that he saw that. And so what got me into the role was being good with people, pretty intuitive when it came to ministry, and a good communicator. And I think those things are soft skills. They're kind of a.

You know, most people get hired for their IQ, they get fired for their EQ, and I think what he saw was I had a pretty high EQ and I could pick up the rest, and so that's what got me into the role, and I had a little bit of a knack for systems, which we were not great at, and and that's what landed me there and it was a uh. I would say. The first three years were a journey like no other. Like it was, it was good, I felt like I was in the right seat, but when you go from being a staff person that's for lack of a better term your boys, with everybody else on the staff right, your fraternity brothers, to all of a sudden now you're having to like, lead those individuals. And I did a lot of stuff right.

0:10:10 - Rusty George
I did a lot of stuff wrong, um, but that was a an interesting first few years for sure I want to ask you about all that because I think there are people listening that, even if they're not in the ministry world, goodness, they know what it's like to get a promotion. And now they're. You know, their lunch buddies are now their subordinates or they've been in a role where they think this isn't a good fit. Uh, I'm going to take a different role, but now it's a huge stretch. Uh, tell me about your relationship with God during that time. How did you develop your faith?

Um, you know, cause we often grow up in the valleys and not on the mountain tops, you know as we all say but but you know, were there certain disciplines that you said, okay, during this season I'm going to make sure I lean into this discipline so that I'm kind of filled up to be able to be poured out. Yeah, that's a great question.

0:11:02 - Kevin Lloyd
So I would say that that early, the early years of that transition were very lonely, so that that if I described it in one word, it would be that and I tell a lot of, you know, younger guys who are stepping into this role or who aspire to a role like this that it's, it's lonely Oftentimes. And so for me, one of the things that really matters is a couple of disciplines. One is the discipline of, of Godly relationships. You know, I'm not the best at like a fostering relationships with people kind of outside of my circle, and one of the things I just felt prompted of the Lord to do was that and it was a spiritual discipline for me, like it was more than just I need to make friends and build my network. I genuinely needed some people who believed in me, that I could, in a, in a tough time or a day where I was second guessing myself, I could pick up the phone and call them and I could hear an audible voice that I was begging God to speak to me. Right, he oftentimes would speak to me through them. Yeah, and so they became almost you know, almost my, my, just my chief encouragers and and I really surrounded myself, I widened that circle and those people have been friends really ever since. So that was one, I would say.

The second discipline for me was rest. Up until that point I had not really done that that intentionally. I wouldn't say that I was burnout or overworked or anything like that, but I had not approached the Sabbath, approach to the Sabbath as what it was designed to be. I had not approached intentional time away with my family as what it was designed to be, and so that was the thing that I worked the hardest on during that season was just dialing into rest and spending time honestly talking to the Lord but receiving from the Lord. Just at the time we lived on about three acres of land, we were kind of in the woods, and I would just sit there and sort of just breathe it in, just say God, speak to me, and then just breathe that in, and so it was a lot more reflection rest being invested into rather than like another book that I would read.

One thing I will say during that season is my up until then I was a pretty avid reader. I still am, but in my mind I almost like would win the year if I read more new books than I read the year before Right, and so a challenge I had during that season was like that was not doing it for me, and so I really honed in on about five, six, seven books that I was just reading year over year. I wasn't introducing that much new to it and I still keep that practice because I learned that I was taking so much in that I was nothing was like changing on the inside of me, and so I really had to make a shift there to just listen more, be more reflective, like like slow down a little bit on the inside in my soul, because everything on the outside was picking up steam.

0:14:16 - Rusty George
That is such a good word For those of us that are avid readers or consumers of content. It could be podcasts, videos, books. I find that the achiever in me likes to just get them all done. You know, listen to read, watched, whatever it is, and then I've really not taken anything new. I just have the sense of accomplishment. You're not the first person I've heard talk about just reading a few books, but reading them over and over again. Tell us a few of those that are some of your favorites, that you went to a lot during that time or maybe still go back to.

0:14:48 - Kevin Lloyd
That's a really good question. So there was, there were a few in the early days that were just like Erwin McManus wrote, that I would just kind of constantly like keeping in the quiver. It was back in the early days of his, his authorship, when he was writing a lot. So some were that, some that I'll fast forward to today, the ones that I kind of keep in there. One is Enemies of the Heart by Andy Stanley.

That's one like on the spiritual side of books that I feel like he really highlights some. I think it's four or five things that he talks about that are enemies of your heart and they're pretty macro level type things. But I would say at least four of the five are things that I struggle with all the time. There's always low lying things that are there. So that's on the spiritual side. That's a book that just helps me.

On the leadership side, a book that I come back to quite often that's in my my cue right now is a book called Multipliers. It's I don't think it's new, but it's by a Liz Wiseman. She's a marketplace leader and and she just essentially talks about the difference in being a leader who is a diminisher even an accidental diminisher versus someone who multiplies influence and impact and other people and really poses the question, like, do you want to be somebody who just leverages influence or who actually has an impact? And so those would be two over the last, you know, four or five, six years that have really had a pretty big impact on me.

0:16:24 - Rusty George
Those are really good. I love that. Okay, let me ask you this one. You're an executive pastor now of a church and so you've got a staff that you're leading. You were told, okay, your EQ is high, so you get this role, which is a great, is a great problem to have. But now you're leading people who you think, oh, your IQ is high but your EQ is not.

How do you help somebody with a low EQ? Because it's one thing to say, go to this conference and learn a new skill. It's another thing to say, hey, stop being a jerk. So what have you learned along the way that works and does not work. Hey, let me interrupt for just a second. If you're a church leader and your church does not have an app or your app seems to be a little bit limited, check out subsplashcom as a great resource to really give your app all the horsepower that it needs. You can connect people, you can help them get access to messages and you can help them set up recurring giving, which is a game changer when it comes to resourcing your ministry subsplashcom Okay, back to our episode.

0:17:38 - Kevin Lloyd
Okay. So one is, and this is a challenge, especially now. I don't know if you're an Enneagram guy. I am. I'm an Enneagram three, so we typically Enneagram threes, enneagram eights. We typically don't have a problem like just saying what needs to be said, right. So this is more of a challenge if you are not wired this way.

But I think one of the first things you have to do is rush to brutal honesty and almost like shake that person into realizing that there's something wrong. And it's not something that they can fix with a silver bullet, it's not something that they can fix with a magic wand, it's probably not something that's gonna fix overnight, but it's an awareness, like you have to make things that are, you have to shine a spotlight on the fact that it's a blind spot. So that's really step one to me is that it's sitting down and having the conversation and I kind of. We do performance evaluations. In fact, we just came out of the season of that. We do them twice a year and they're designed to help elevate performance and create a performance plan. But we also have we're very honest on the weekly with our team. So our performance evaluations. There's nothing that's saved up until that moment. If that makes sense, that's good. This, however, is one of those things that, if I'm you know, because EQ is something that also has to scale. So, like as our church has grown, as your ministry grows or maybe somebody's given more influence, you may start to see the capacity of like what got them their emotional intelligence up until now is starting to get peaked. So I typically will hold something like that. That's almost. It's something that's not just a performance thing, it's not a quick fix, but it's a new journey for them of discovering something, a higher plane. I'll typically save that for a performance evaluation because it's a deeper conversation. It's oftentimes just saying hey, I think this is a blind spot for you. What do you see with that? And then we just start going down the journey.

Aaron Burke, who's a pastor in Tampa, florida they just released on his he has a podcast as well. They just released maybe like a six or seven episode deal on emotional intelligence and I'm having all of our campus pastors listen to it right now and in our campus pastor meetings we're talking about it. So I will try to go in and introduce it. Then I'll try to resource that and honestly, rusty, I feel like it takes longer to help someone grow in their emotional intelligence than in any other area. You can study for a test. It's hard to study on how to read a room, so like you really just have to help stretch them in that area.

I was having a conversation with a leader today they're not on our team, but it's someone that I kind of work with and I just told him I said, hey, I think part of the problem might be you and I think it's because you're not a very kind, gentle leader and part of the reason is because I don't think you're a very kind, gentle person and helping them see that. And then, rusty, I feel like you have to at some point ask the question do you care enough to wanna grow? And if you don't, well, you're really smart. I'm kind of smart. Neither one of us can help them grow if they don't want to. So it's just coming to that place of like you really tap into someone's teachability when you introduce an idea like EQ, because it's gonna take a lot to learn.

0:21:31 - Rusty George
Talk about reading a room. Different people do that differently. They walk into a room and let's just stick with the Enneagram. A three, on his dark day, can look around and say who's the most important person in the room that I need to become friends with. An eight could view it as a challenge. A one or a two could well. A two could probably just go around and pick up everybody's trash and help everybody. So what do you see in the people that read a room?

0:22:06 - Kevin Lloyd
well. Yeah. So the first thing is they know themselves really well, like they're secure. So again, a three walks into a room in an insecure me. If I'm insecure that day, what I'm trying to do is be the life of the party.

When I know myself well, I walk into a room and look around and ask the question like, does it need a life of the party? Is that what the room needs to elevate it? Is that what the people need to elevate it? And it's kind of just I feel like people who are best at doing this don't come in with, as we would say in the South, both guns blazing right. They don't come in with their personality, just like taking over the room. There's a time and place for that if it needs to be, but most of the time that's really not the case. So I'll give a good example.

I was with one of our campuses yesterday. That's down in one of our beach communities and the makeup of this campus is it's a lot of guys who are like they're surfers, they're outdoorsmen, they're just that kind of individual. Well, if I go in and I start trying to sway a conversation a different direction and just take over, all of them are gonna tune out. They're all gonna tune out, but if I just walk in and listen for five minutes and connect with their stories rather than trying to tell my own, if I don't try to trump and one up what they're doing, then it allows me to one be like ingratiated into the room and then be able to have a little bit of influence, then be able to laugh. And I feel like step one is knowing yourself. Step two is kind of taking the time to just figure out, like what's the dominant spirit of the room, and some of that it's tough because it's not formulaic. I compare it to when you're hiking up Everest. Everest they have base camps. I've never hiked it, but I've heard that there are base camps at different elevations and the base camps are so you can stay there for a week or however many days and you acclimate to that atmosphere.

Well, I feel like that's what you need to do when you come into a room is you need to acclimate to that atmosphere? You need to see what's the what is it? What is this room? What's the oxygen level? Well, how much of my personality does it need? Does it need me to be dominant? Is it a bunch of dominant people? Does it need some laughter, does it need some humanity?

And then I would come in and say the third step to me is the old John Maxwell principle. It's figuring out how do I put a 10 on everyone in here's head, and sometimes it's one at a time, sometimes it's going to, especially if you're talking about a room of quieter people. You're probably needing to sit one on one. It's going to take longer. If it's a room of where you can capture attention, you need to be able to do that in a way that's a little larger of a scale, but it's. It's focusing on, like, how do the people in this room feel about themselves and how can I elevate the way they feel about themselves? Jesus did it. All the time he would walk into rooms. He would, I mean, walk into situations and survey it and look around and go, hey, these people are hungry. Like before we do anything else, let's, why don't we feed them? Right, he was. He was surveying moments, and so I would say that's my non-formula formula for reading a room.

0:25:44 - Rusty George
I wish we had it. Like you know, there's five types of people needed in every room. You know, I do too, and you walk. You walk in and go. Okay, which one do I need? To be based upon the room? Yeah, somebody should work on that. That can be the next working genius. That can be the next working genius, right? I was gonna say that Patrick Lyciode will come out with a course.

0:26:05 - Kevin Lloyd
Yeah, I think we mentioned the book Cinergist earlier. Yeah, that's true, that's a skill of a synergist, like that's true it talks about there's three different cogs of the wheel. There's the artist or, or you know, the creator, there's the entrepreneur, there's the operator. But that synergist is the one that can kind of look at all of it and go what does the moment call for?

0:26:25 - Rusty George
Yeah, and it's just kind of this different Emotional gear, right, that exists in some it's such a difficult thing for people when they walk into a room of peers that all have the same job. You know, like I mean you could see it with soccer moms all in a PTA meeting, yeah, but you could also see it I've seen this all the time when I walk into a room filled with lead pastors. Mm-hmm, you know, yeah, cuz they're all trying to figure out who's the funniest, who's the smartest.

0:26:56 - Kevin Lloyd
Who's got the?

0:26:56 - Rusty George
biggest church, you know, and the first day is really just everybody trying to figure out what's my niche here. Yeah, and it is a skill, you're right.

0:27:06 - Kevin Lloyd
Well, and I'll say this about you, rusty, and I've noticed this about. I've been fortunate a couple of times to be around like even a Craig Groschelle or someone like that but but you do this well, is you? Don't come in and try to dominate the room, like if everybody else is talking about church size. Mm-hmm, I've noticed with you. Don't walk in and try to, even if yours is larger, try to throw that trump card down and say, well, yeah, but it, it's, and I do think that it's. It's an emotional intelligence mark that you're Secure enough to go last. You're secure enough to not have to even have a word in those moments. I think there's something some of the most powerful, influential leaders that I know are that way. They're wired that way. They don't have to, they don't have to have the microphone, so to speak.

0:27:57 - Rusty George
Well, that's kind I appreciate that. But as a guy with the mic now I get to ask another question. So, uh, tell me about courageous pastors, because at some point, yeah, you've started to become a coach. Mm-hmm, and we've had Shawn love Joy on and Adam Bishop and, and they had great stuff to say, great. But tell us a little bit about you know, how you got involved with them, how you started becoming a coach Did you have a coach first? And a little bit about what you do with that. That's awesome.

0:28:27 - Kevin Lloyd
So I did not have a formal coach at first. I I mentioned earlier when I got into the XP world, I Was looking for a relationship. So I did join probably four to five coaching networks in a row and Through that is where I connected with Shawn. Love, joy, and Shawn was the founder CEO of courageous pastors and and at the time he was a senior pastor himself and what I found in him was someone who was Light-minded but also someone who understood what it took to like Lead healthy and live healthy, like the systems were healthy, they were simple, they were transferable, they scaled. His life was healthy. I watched the way that he was with his wife and at the time he had to like middle school daughters and an elementary school daughter, so they were much younger and and I just watched him and so a lot of it came from him. And then he pretty quickly came to me and said, hey, would you be interested in being a coach, along with, at the time, about four other coaches. And so when courageous pastors launched, I was one of the original four or five. That was a part of it and and I'll be honest, you know, we a Little bit in those early couple years built the plane as we flew it. Man we were, we were all a part of the same culture and had been in the same orbit. Shawn was kind of the central hub of that. And then what's happened over the years is we've been able to Systematize that around what we call gears of growth, which is we say healthy growth comes around when three, three Interdependent gears are working together your culture, your system and your team. And so we've been able to build like a pretty congruent Growth plan out of that. And so now we have coaches. I want to say they're close to 20 coaches across the country. They're all practitioners, so they're working in a local church, feeling the same. You know pain and stress and everything else that every other pastor is. And we come alongside pastors across the country and we just help them. And really great.

Coaching, I say, gives you three things. It gives you perspective. I mean it's good to have, you know, a system to run and a plan to run and we have that. But perspective are in those moments where, like, you're about to walk into a meeting and fire somebody and you just need to pick up the phone and call a coach and go hey, here's what I'm about to say, does this sound right? And a coach can say, yeah, but just don't say it that way, right? Just a little perspective sometimes to say hey, the ship's not sinking, don't feel like you need to jump overboard. What you're going through is normal. Most pastors are the largest fish in their pond, so if you can just bring perspective of what's what the world they're in is helpful. So we help bring perspective. We help bring permission. You know you're this way rusty I'm this way too.

Like you're faced with a big decision and you wonder sometimes, like I feel like this is what god's leading me to do. But is this just bad pizza that I ate last night? Am I just like? Am I way off? And a lot of times it's just confirmation of somebody else just saying no, I think that's right on, that's right on, and so permission. And then, if you have perspective, you have permission. Oftentimes it brings peace and so good coaching helps you get off a call. This happened with me. Um, just, uh, two weeks ago we got off a call and and a guy just said this is great. Like I feel at PM will lay my head down tonight and sleep well because I've been stirring around this one decision and I know it's the right one. So to me, good coaching is that, and that's really what courageous pastors does. It helps pastors have just what we say the courage to make the decision, to have the hard conversation, sometimes the courage just to show back up at the office after a bad sermon. It just helps them keep going.

0:32:23 - Rusty George
Oh, those Mondays are tough, aren't they? I know right. Oh, come back in. Everybody's looking at you like that was awful. Oh yeah, Kevin, this has been awesome For people that are interested in coaching. Where should I send them? Courageouspastors.com.

0:32:38 - Kevin Lloyd
CourageousPastors.com, and the next step from there will be to schedule what's called a strategy session. It's about a 30 minute informational call and you'll talk to our coaches. We'll talk about you know, for those who are interested in it just what's going on in their world, about what kind of pain they're facing, what season they're in and if and how coaching could be a fit for them.

0:32:59 - Rusty George
Yeah, that's great. Oh, this has been awesome, buddy. It's always fun talking with you. Likewise, man, hope you continue to thrive and enjoy North Carolina. I love that part of the country. It's beautiful, same. So go Tar Heels and thank you for your time, brother.

0:33:17 - Kevin Lloyd
Thank you, my friend. I appreciate it. Rusty, You're the man.

0:33:21 - Rusty George
Well, great stuff from Kevin. I so appreciate his insight, his help, his clarity and he's such an incredible leadership coach. And, speaking of that, we have another leadership coach by the name of Matt Piland, who's gonna join us next week as he breaks down how to find a leadership coach and what you look for in that. You're not gonna wanna miss it, because it's gonna make your life and your faith a lot more simple. As always, share this episode with a friend, reach out to Kevin on social media, thank him for being on the podcast and, as always, keep it simple.