The Rusty George Podcast

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Following jesus isn't always easy, but it's not complicated. Join us each week as we work to make faith simple. This is Simple Faith.

Well, hi everyone. I'm your host, Rusty George. Welcome to Simple Faith. I wanna thank our friends at Saga Counseling for sponsoring the show. Saga counseling.com does an incredible job of helping meet your mental health needs, relational needs, marriage and family therapy needs. Just go to saga, S A G A counseling.com.

Whenever you need it and also from wherever you are. This is one of the biggest questions that I get asked all the time is, where can I find a good Christian counselor Will search No longer Saga Counseling can help, so make sure you check 'em out. Saga counseling.com. Well, today we're kicking off a kind of a brand new style of our show.

We recognized that with Leading Simple. We were trying to do two things at once. Help you with your faith and help you with your leadership. So we're gonna divide that up a little bit. And so some weeks you're gonna get simple faith. In other days you'll get leading Simple. But all here on this subscription, and I'm thanking you right now for subscribing.

And if you haven't, please make sure that you do. But today we're gonna have a conversation with a friend of mine who is also the founding pastor of Real Life Church and now the lead pastor at Southeast Christian Church. One of the largest churches in the world. Kyle Iman is a renowned pastor, author, and speaker, and I'm honored to call him a friend, and he has written a new book entitled When Your Way Isn't Working.

So I knew this was such good stuff. After recording it, I thought this needs to be the. First episode we ever air for simple faith, because yes, we're gonna talk some leadership stuff at the beginning, but then towards the end we're gonna get into some really great stuff about simple faith when it comes to understanding how to follow God when your way isn't working.

Well, thanks again to Saga Counseling. Thank you to you for listening, and here's my conversation with Kyle Edelman. Kyle Edelman, welcome back to the program. It's an honor to have you with us. Um, last time we talked it was a lot of fun reminiscing about the old days of, uh, supply preaching. I

Kyle Idleman: don't know if anyone else enjoyed it, but Ester did.

Rusty George: That's great. Well, and I think I texted you because I drove by the sign for that church where you used to be. Yes. The church of perseverance or whatever. That's exactly it. Yeah. I thought I know who used to mow that lawn.

Kyle Idleman: That's, that's a real, that's a real place. Yes, man.

Rusty George: So, okay. You've been at Southeast now for over 20 years, man.

It does not seem like it's been that long. Um, what do you know now that you wish you knew then when you rolled in 20 years ago? At the ripe age Of what, 27 or something like that?

Kyle Idleman: Yeah, I think that's about right. Um, yeah, I, it has gone by pretty quickly. I think the. I think I'm trying to answer that question in a way that doesn't sound overly cliche.

Okay. Okay. Uh, because the truth is what was frustrating to me in the early years, there had more to do with my immaturity than some things happening here in the church. Like I just underestimated. Okay, here's the. Here's how change happens. Here's what things look like in three years or in five years. And so I, as a 27 year old coming here, wa I, I think I talked to you a little bit about this at the time, but I would be frustrated about certain things because my ideas about.

Timing we're immature. It was like, okay, it's been six months. Why hasn't this changed? Why are we still doing this and why won't we address this over here? And so I, I wanted to be a part of some transition and some change here. I felt like that's one of the reasons God had brought me to this church. Um, and.

What I know after 20 years is that it's part of the process. Like a lot happened, it just didn't happen, you know, as quickly or as immediately as. I, I might have wanted it to at the time.

Rusty George: So to kind of get our, our listeners in the Headspace you were in, I mean, you were, you were coming into a church that was roughly 30 years old at the time, maybe a little bit longer.

You had the, the seasoned veteran and Bob Russell who'd been there for that long. But then you had the heir apparent waiting on taking Bob's job in, in Dave Stone, and you were gonna be the guy to take Dave's place in this ascension. And it was a huge idea. How do we have a hundred year? You know, run as a church that just makes incredible impact and you guys are, are close to doing that.

But you know, you come in as that third tier guy with, you're the young guy with all the creative ideas. Was it weird with two guys above you that you kind of thought, well, I'm kind of third in line here, or did you feel like you had a voice immediately? You already mentioned that it was tough to get change to happen.

Did you feel listened to, I guess is what I'm asking.

Kyle Idleman: I, I did, I, I think. Bob and Dave both were incredibly gracious to include me in conversations that, in hindsight, I might have felt entitled to be a part of, but that was not true. Like, you know, I recognize now looking back on it, that, that it was incredibly, uh, intentional and kind of them to let me be at the table.

I, I've been in elder meetings and been an elder here since. I came. Right. And in our context, that's pretty significant. Wow. Uh, to, to be in on, on those conversations and to have a seat at the table and to be able to talk through some of, you know, some of those things. The dynamic, which was, you know, interesting and there's not been a lot of examples of this where, you know, Dave.

As the air parent had a relationship with some of the longtime members, that would be a little bit like, um, a, a child, like a son or a daughter, you know, where, um, expectations and pressures from a parent might be significant. I came in and had a little bit of a relationship as a grandchild and I as a new grandparent, I can tell you that grandkids get away with a lot more, right?

And so, Part of the, the genius of this, of having kind of three generations in there at the same time is that it allows the, the third generation or kind of the grandchild to get away with some things, um, and, and change and transition that takes the pressure off of the second generation leader. Mm. And I'm not saying it would work this way in any context, but for us, Whether that was strategic or not, I, I don't know, but that was certainly a, a reality.

Rusty George: So I'm, I'm remembering when you rolled in there, they were still wearing suits, correct? Yeah. Yeah. And I gotta believe, because I remember when you called me, you said, I'm thinking about taking this job. And I said, you're gonna have to wear suits again. You don't wanna take that job. And now I'm glad you did cuz I got to go to real life.

But, um, Th this whole battle, that's just one of the things that you were probably trying to update them on. Um, little things like dress code, uh, worship styles, uh, you know, those kind of things. There's a, what's become a famous, famous story among pastors about your conversation with Bob Russell, and could you wear something other than a suit and tie?

Do you remember that? Can you share that with us?

Kyle Idleman: I, you know, I do remember he tells it so well that, and I'm glad he tells it because I, I would not have shared that very, you know, openly maybe you and I behind closed doors. But, but he tells it thankfully. And, um, So I knew coming into this that this was a, a big deal and I knew trying to transition out of a suit and tie on on the weekend, um, would be a sensitive.

Thing. And I had talked to some people who had had conversations with Bob about that in the past to know that he had kind of this go-to, uh, way of talking, talking about why suit and ize were appropriate. That he would, he would say, Hey, if you, if you were going to meet the president, um, you'd wear a suit and tie.

You could wear a suit and tie to meet the president if, if you'd go. To the president and you'd wear a suit and tie for him, then, then how much more should you, should you be dressed up? You know the presence of God when you come to church. And so I knew that that was coming. I'd been prepared for it. So in my mind, I had worked on an answer, like I knew what my answer was gonna be.

And so I go into his office to talk about it and to say, Hey, you know, I'm so honored to preach here. I, I know this doesn't seem like a big deal. I don't wanna make it a big deal. It's just, you know, it's just close. I get all of that and I'm honoring, I wanna be honoring to, um, to the tradition. All of those things I said, but, you know, it, it doesn't, if.

It's difficult for me and here's why. And he, so then he gave that explanation, um, Hey, if you were gonna go see the president, wouldn't you wear? And, and so I was ready for it and I said, well, You know, I, if I went to the president, and the president was my dad, then I wouldn't feel like I had to wear suit and tie.

And uh, I kinda went through that and to his credit, and if you know Bob, you can hear him do this. You know, he kind of, he kinda laughed at my answer and said, okay, okay. And he gave me the blessing. He said, go for it. And it was, it was, wow. Like, I walked out and I was like, what, what just happened? And, uh, And so, yeah, I'm thankful he tells that story.

He tells it better than I do.

Rusty George: Oh, that is a great story and I love hearing it from your perspective. Uh, no. What I'm fascinated by is, I mean, this is Bob Russell. I mean, he's a legend.

Kyle Idleman: This is a huge, and he's intimidating for him, by the way.

Rusty George: Oh my goodness. Yes. Um, but yeah, but here you are asking this question and he changes on a, on a dime.

He doesn't say, well, hold on, let me think about that. Or that's, you know, you're over your skis on this one. Um, did, did he have a, a tendency to change his mind that quickly or did he often need time to process?

Kyle Idleman: I, I, I don't know cuz I haven't talked to him about it. And, and I'm asing he's not listening to this.

No offense. He's subscriber. Yeah. Uh, but, uh, I think he probably recognized that that was the direction things were going and did not want that to be divisive, nor did he want that to feel like a battle that we needed to fight or work our way through. After he transitioned out that if it was going to change, he understood the wisdom of it's better for it to change.

On my, on my watch, he's the one who'd kind of held that standard. And so for him, Uh, to make that change took a lot of pressure off of Dave and, uh, off of myself and I, I, I'm sure he, that was intentional.

Rusty George: Boy, that is such a great leadership point there, because I think when we take over a place, when you walk into a new situation, you know, people are expecting change.

The problem is you haven't earned the, the chips. To kind of, you know, spend on that change. And for him to say, I'll take the heat on this one because I've earned the chips. That's a huge gift to you. Have you watched that over the years of the guys that have been there? The longer, you know, they, they, they kind of get that, uh, grace from the congregation and, and knowing when to spend some of that change.

Kyle Idleman: Um, yes. And I don't know that, you know, Bob or, or Dave perhaps as well, get enough credit for all the different things like that. Mm-hmm. That over 30 years. I mean, we don't think about them because they weren't part of our generational challenges, but, you know, things like switching from a him book to a screen, you know, at the time that was a pretty significant, that was a pretty significant change.

Right. Um, right, absolutely. And, and, and like going to an IMAG where. That your image is projected on a, on the side screen. Like that was a significant thing. And so Ed wasn't new to, to him, to, you know, be flexible and to recognize, okay, we're not gonna have sacred cows, we're not gonna major in some of these things.

Gonna be flexible. And he, you know, he had taught that to the congregation and he had modeled that, um, So when we made some of those transitions, there were certainly a history of of, of that.

Rusty George: Okay. And I'm curious, I just thought about this. Um, now you've been there 20 years, you've witnessed the transition from Bob to Dave and now to you, and you've been the lead pastor for five, six years, is that right?

Kyle Idleman: Uh, yeah. Maybe like four years. Yeah.

Rusty George: Okay. Uh, it feels like six right before right before Covid, they walked out. Yeah, that's exactly right. Here you go. Um, so. Are there sacred cows you have now that you feel like people are challenging you on?

Kyle Idleman: Hmm. Um, that's a good question. And. I, I think by nature I don't recognize my own sacred cows.

That's wise. We like, we're, we're, we're not the ones to notice them. So I, I'm sure there are some of those, uh, you know, some of those things. I think one of the ways I feel this is there are certain things that I really like to have a voice in that are not that practical. Once the church. Reach a certain number of campuses or certain, like I, I like design and I like programming, and I, you know, there are some of these things that are, are things I enjoy and yet I've had to step away from them because, Even though I enjoy it, and even though I feel gifted in it to some degree, it, it makes things more difficult for everybody else.

And there are certainly people who are more gifted in those things than I am. And, and so, you know, letting go of some of those things have been, has been, has been challenging. Um mm-hmm. Has been challenging for me.

Rusty George: Yeah. It is interesting the older we get, and you're not quite to 50 yet, uh, but I am, I, I. I have to catch myself cuz there are things that I think, oh no, no, no, no.

This is the way we always do things. Mm-hmm. And I think, you know, this, I, I remember when we, when we, when we switched to, you know, the message notes are now gonna be on the app. So telling everybody to take their phones out and we're gonna follow along that way. There was something in me that kind of thought, oh, I wonder if this is how people felt when we started putting notes in bulletins and they had to write stuff down.

Kyle Idleman: Well, they're gonna doodle the whole time. You know, you know what I've had for recently like that is we. I've had it drilled into me, you know, that a service should not be any longer than, you know, 65 minutes or 70 minutes max. Right? Yep. And I was challenged by a few of our staff, um, a while back about, Hey, people are really hungry for worship.

They're, they're really wanting to stay. Well, if you look, no, people aren't leaving early. You know, if, if we extend the service, we think that it's going to meet. A spiritual need that, that, that people have, that they need to be encouraged in this. And, and this is an opportunity, and I started watching it and it's, this is difficult for me.

Like we, our service now is at like 78 minutes and I feel it, you know, once it gets past 70 minutes, I'm like, oh, this is taking the, you know, And, and then I look around and I recognize, okay, you know, they're right. Like this is, yeah, this has been important for our church and God is using this time and, and, uh, I, I need to be, need to be more flexible with it.

But, uh, but it's been hard. I mean, it's just so, so drilled in. Yeah. That once you go past this length of time, it's too long. It

Rusty George: is interesting, isn't it? I think post covid, the people that show up now, they really wanna be there. They are longing for a, that's a great word. You know, non downloadable experience.

And I felt the same thing cuz ours was always 60 minutes and you, you know, it goes back to the theater days when you had to get it done in 50 minutes. Right. So, uh, you know, being able to, to extend that a little longer, that's. That's a, that's a good one to bring up. Okay. So over the last year since we last talked to you, you went on sabbatical, um, but you took it at an odd time.

Uh, you went in the fall rather than over the summer, which is when a lot of guys do it. So did it kind of sneak up on you? Was it a, Hey, I think I'm probably more tired than I think I need to do this. Uh, what, what kind of prompted you to go ahead and, and take a sabbatical and what would you say about that?

Kyle Idleman: So you're a part of the story in a way. So I, when I came out to, uh, California, I came out like a, I don't remember, like a week and a half before I was preaching for you and I was gonna write, I, I had just set aside this time to crank it out. Mm-hmm. And um, and I don't know how you are, but typically, If I have like a week, week and a half, and that's all I'm doing, I, I can get in the zone.

I get things done and, you know, produce a lot and mm-hmm. You know, I'm much more productive in that week and a half than I am over the course of a year trying to find an hour here, an hour there. And so, right. I, I went to, for that express purpose. To have some time alone to just write and study. And I kept dropping that bucket into the well and nothing like it was just coming up dry.

And I, I, I came outta that time and I had like four pages. I mean, I, I just could not get in into it. I couldn't produce, and I, wow. I, I'd never had that before. And so it, it, it freaked me out a little bit. Um. Mm-hmm. I had not experienced that before that, in fact, that has always been, What I could lean on. Y you know, when I didn't necessarily feel productive or didn't necessarily feel like I was doing well in these other areas, I always knew, okay, if I just get some time by myself to study and to write, I'll, I'll knock some stuff out.

And so when I came there, I, I, I preached for you on that weekend. I came back here and I met with a few of our leaders. Um, And said, Hey, I, I think I just need some time off. I think I need a month. Um, I just need a break. I think the way I worded it to them was, I didn't think about this at the time, but you know, I think I said I just need to be left alone for a month.

And Um hmm. And they listened. And came back like the next day and said, Hey, we're thinking three months. And I was like, Hey, I don't want to take three months. Like I was almost immediately resistant. That wasn't something I would've chosen. I think they knew I hadn't. Been myself for a little while. I think when I expressed some of the frustrations, um, that I was feeling and why I needed a month off, I think it, it also convinced them, uh, you probably need more time than that.

And mm-hmm. And there's some debate as to whether or not that would've been forced upon me had I not chosen it. We'll never know, but, but, um, I, I went home and I talked to my wife about it, and she was like, you know, why are you res, why are you resisting this? Like, why, why wouldn't you receive it? Yeah. And, and I, and I knew the answer was pride.

Like I, I mean, I knew the answer. I, yeah. Uh, you know, I didn't have a good reason other than pride and, um, and so, and so I had a three month break and I. I am grateful. I th I think one of the ways that God prunes us is, you know, he uses other people to do some things that maybe we wouldn't have chosen ourselves.

Like the pruning process almost always is. It doesn't just happen by what we choose. Right. In other words, like one of the ways, you know, it's God pruning is it's not what you would've necessarily wanted, or, or it required you to submit, you submit to pruning. Mm-hmm. And, um, and so that was true, like that was true for me.

And, and, and those three months went by, you know, really quickly. And there was a lot of wisdom. And and them doing that.

Rusty George: Can you walk us through kind of your strategy? Did you have one? A lot of guys go into it with, you know, I'm gonna do read 50 books and I'm gonna take these trips and download all this information.

And some guys are like, I'm gonna lay on a beach for 90 days, or whatever it is. Did you have a strategy going into it? Did you have a plan or did you happen into one? Hey, let me interrupt this podcast for just a second to remind you if you're not taking care of your mental health, Nobody is. Step up and go check out saga center.org to find out more.

Alright, back to our show.

Kyle Idleman: Well, I was given some loose guardrails or direction, um, where the first month would be a time to rest. Second month would be a time to receive, and the third month would be a time to reenter. And I think in hindsight that was pretty. Wise, it, it took me a little time to get into the rest because I hadn't planned on it.

You know, ideally in this situation, it would've been much better to say, you know, next year I'm going to take this time and I'm gonna plan out that rest. Uh, because it wasn't necessarily planned. My rest. Was, um, was a little bit slow in coming. And, uh, so, so that was, that was a little challenging. But the second month, uh, is when I actually wrote most of this book.

Which I really enjoyed. It'd been such a long time, I don't know if you can relate to this, but it'd been such a long time since I'd able to write, right, and just sit and write and not, not feel like I was doing it around sermons or around meetings. And um, and so that ended up being a very replenishing thing.

And then I was intentional to write about something that was going to help me process. Um, you know, what God was wanting to do in me during that time and, uh, and I'm really glad I did. Like, I, I think I went against the council of some by trying to write a book on a sabbatical, but, but I knew, and not everybody's wired this way, but I knew for me that that would.

Be helpful. Like I knew it would be healing. I knew it would be redeeming. I knew that it would help me process what God was wanting to do. It's funny to go back and read some of it now because, you know, I have a little bit of that, uh, vulnerability hangover where I'm like, at the time I was feeling real vulnerable and now I'm like, eh, you know, uh, but I think that was part of the, I mean, I think that's part of what God was wanting to do and so, um, I did that in the second month, and then the third month began to spend a lot more time dreaming and thinking through, frankly, what I should have done pre-transition, like I didn't have any time before the transition.

I didn't have any time to stop and to think and pray and dream and, and address what other parts of our. Church needed transitioned. Like we didn't do any of that. Um, I think we had good intentions of doing it, but we just didn't, I think in part because I'd been on the team so long, it just felt like it would be natural.

And, uh, and so like when I, I went during this time to meet with like a, a, uh, transition leadership transition coach, right? And he said, Hey, can you pull up your transition plan? For me, and I'm on my computer acting like, I'm, like, I'm putting in the search transition plan. Like I know nothing's there, like I know, but, uh, but what popped up was actually a transition plan between Bob and Dave and I started looking at that and realizing how intentional we were with some of the other transition pieces that needed to happen for them to transition well and just recognize that we didn't do that.

We just didn't do any of that. As far as transitioning different positions or structure, um, we, we had not done that. And so the third month of the sabbatical became more about that. Mm.

Rusty George: So can you reveal any of that to us? What's that look like now?

Kyle Idleman: Oh, um, so when I looked back at the transition plan between Bob and Dave, like they were really intentional to transition, uh, in some new elders, um, that would, would be fresh with Dave.

And, um, I think that was really helpful. I, I think because I'd been an elder the past 10 years, not, that didn't seem very necessary. Um hmm. But bringing in some new. People, I think is, is really healthy, uh, you know, for the organization. And, and, and so we were intentional with some of that. And then, um, and then just the structure of how we were working.

You know, I, it was me and an executive pastor. Um, and, and then we transitioned it to where, Um, instead of just having one executive pastor, we have three. And, um, and that's been really helpful to me. Mm. Um, and it's mu but it's much more around my strengths and my weaknesses. Right. Um, and, and, and so we were in, we were intentional with that.

Um, and we probably should have been that way before, but I just been here so long. I, I don't think. I just don't think we did that as well as maybe we could have. I

Rusty George: just love the fact that you started searching for something you knew wasn't there when you typed in transition plan. That's fantastic. Sure.

Yeah. Let me, let me pull that up here. Uh, okay. So I, I want to talk a little bit about the book. Um, tell us a little bit about it. Um, what's, where'd it come from? Obviously you were in a place of. You know, emptiness. But you already had the idea. I imagine you probably already had a book, you know, uh, contract signed and now you got a deadline, and so what, what, what, what's the book like?

Kyle Idleman: Well, I did change. I did change it con considerably. I, I knew that my anchor passage was going to be, um, John 15 verse five, where Jesus says, I'm the vine, you're the branches. If you remain in me and I remain in you, you'll bear much fruit apart from me. You can't do anything. And I think because I wrote this during the sabbatical, it helped me fall.

What's the phrase, you know, fall in love with the problem, right? Like, instead of focusing so much on the solution, being able to better understand the problem and the, apart from me, you can't do anything. Aspect of the message became much more broad, much more personal, um, than it was prior. And so I, I talk in the book just about, you know, the journey of.

Recognizing, okay. My, my way's not working here. I, I had a friend of mine, you know, who said, Hey, why don't you go see a buddy who's an executive coach and you know, Me, but me thinking, oh, that sounds good. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I probably need an executive coach and, uh, it sounded important and then like, getting 20 minutes into the conversation with the executive coach and saying, oh, you're a therapist.

You know, you're, you are, you're, you just call yourself an executive coach, so people like me will call you and make an appointment with you. And, um, And he just helped me recognize, you know, the, some things in my life that were not sustainable. And I, I began to document a little bit more in my journal and then in my conversations with other pastors, it was interesting as you, I mean, not surprising to you, but when, when you're on a sabbatical like that, you start to hear from all these other friends, you know, pastor, um, friends who have.

Have been on that journey, who, who are on that journey. And so as I listened to them and as I journaled my way through that, I started to recognize these consistent kind of symptoms of my way not working. And I think this is true for everybody. It's not exhaustive. I mean, it could be more than this, but I, I talk in the book about just these four symptoms of, of discouragement kind of leading with a lack of courage.

Um, that's good. And when it's ongoing, it, it really starts to not just affect you, but the people you lead. You know, you, you just can't sustain that. And so when you're leading with a lack of courage or discouragement, it, it begins to work its way through, you know, the organization. And I, I was seeing that, and then I talk in there about, uh, the underlying frustration.

Um, I'm not easily annoyed as a person. I don't get. You know, frustrated with people, very easy, but I, I was irritable and mean. My wife like, called me out on that and I was like, You know, immediately irritated with her observation of my irritation. Like, it, like I, I was just more on edge with people than would be my nature.

And then, uh, just fatigue, just feeling tired. I, I thought, So there was something wrong. I thought I need, I got low T That's what I thought. I, but I went to the, my doctor and I'm like, can you gimme some testosterone or something? And he just ran all the tests and he came back and he's like, you're fine.

You don't need anything. You, yeah. You know, you're just, you're, you're just worn out. And then, um, and then the other one was anxiety. I, one of the things I learned about anxiety in this process is, Even if you don't feel it emotionally, that it surfaces in you physically. And that was true for me. Like I didn't, if you would've asked me about feeling anxious or, you know, depressed around some things, I, I don't think I've felt that emotionally, but physically.

There were these different signs that I was, um, anxious over things that I had no control over. And so I, I, I just talked my way through that in the book of, Hey, here's my journey in this. Here's, uh, here's what I've seen with other people. You know, these are the symptoms of, there's something in your life that, that is, uh, not aligned.

Um, and, and I talk about it more as a connection problem. Where I wanna treat it as a production problem. In other words, I look at these things and I think the way to fix it is to double down on effort and give, you know, here I wanna work my way out of it. And, and connection is the one thing I don't feel like I have time for, but that's the one thing that is most needed.

And, and the sabbatical helped. Helped me. Forced me to, to recognize that. What's the title of the book? Uh, when Your Way Isn't Working.

Rusty George: I love that. Are you one of the guys that you just, you get the title right off the bat, or does it develop over time?

Kyle Idleman: Uh, I, I typically have like three or four titles and I don't know which I want to go with, you know, and then I, I get other people's input and then kinda go that direction.

It's kinda like a sermon series.

Rusty George: Yeah. Speaking of, I wanted to ask you, what are you excited about? What's coming up? What's, you got a sermon series that you're about to do, you're gonna do in the, you know, next year that you're like, man, I can't wait to do this.

Kyle Idleman: Do you feel like, do you feel like whatever sermon series you're in is your favorite?

Rusty George: Yeah. Well, do you ever feel that way?

Kyle Idleman: Yeah, occasionally. I'm, yeah, most of the time. Fair. That's just to get over. That's fair. Yeah. That's fair. Yeah. Most of the time. Uh, so I'm, I'm in this series right now. Um, called one thing leads to another and we have, you know, we have some kids that are similar in age.

It, it came from the conversations I kept having with my, you know, 18 to 23 year old kids where they would feel this anxiety over what they were gonna do, what five years was gonna look like for them. And um, and I would always say to them, Hey, one, you know, one thing leads to another. You, you're focused on this over here, but.

You don't know how these dots will get connected. And, um, and so I'm, I'm in this series talking about the unfolding will of God in your life out of, uh, the life of, uh, Joseph and Genesis. And, uh, and I, you know, I'm just amazed at how many people ha their faith questions are really around God. What's God's will for my life specifically?

And, um, So that's a series I'm in right now, which I'm enjoying a lot. Isn't that interesting?

Rusty George: I mean, I remember when I was that age and that was my number one question, what's God's will for my life? And now that I'm, you know, older I. It's still a number one question people ask me at all ages of their life.

Yes. Yeah. I just thought it was a young adult question, but it's a That's true. An everybody question, isn't it?

Kyle Idleman: Yeah, it is. I think as you get older, like one of the exercises I've, I'm doing with, uh, our staff is having them reverse engineer god's will for your life. Like, just go back and, Hmm. And as you do that, In in a similar way that the life of Joseph demonstrates, your confidence grows, your faith grows that, okay, I can't see it from here, but if these things have been true, then these things will be true.

And so I think as you get older, you ask that question just as much, but hopefully your faith in the unfolding will of God, it has deepened.

Rusty George: You know, uh, we have a mutual friend and Mark Moore and we were having a conversation one time, I think actually on the podcast about God's will and Branch branched into how, how predetermined are we and Calvinism and all of that.

And he said, well, I'm not a Calvinist, but the more I look in the rear view mirror, the more I see things kind of line up.

Kyle Idleman: Ah, that's good. Yeah. Yeah.

Rusty George: That's right. Well, Kyle, this has been great. It's always fun hanging out. Um, I, I gotta tell you, uh, When you were out to teach for us back in almost a year ago, it was, it was so fun to see you at real life, which is the church you started.

And it was so fun for some of our people that were there as the scaffolding to get the church going to see you and um, just to have you back at, uh, at the place in California. And the message was great. And I gotta tell you this funny story. Um, the other day we're in a meeting and somebody's going over the.

The, the top messages downloaded at Real Life Church over the last, I don't know, 15 years or whatever. Number one is always John Burke. Uh, okay. In heaven. You know, it just con people continue to download that. Okay? Number two, Kyle's message. Come on. Okay. Are you kidding me? I've been here 20 years. And this guy continues.

It's unbelievable, man.

Kyle Idleman: Well, hey, I loved it. It meant so much to me. It meant so much to me to more than I thought it would. Like. I was excited about it, but I think I told you this, you know, it was more emotional for me than I thought it would be. Maybe because I needed a sabbatical at the time. That's what it was.

But it meant, it meant a ton to me.

Rusty George: Well, that's great, man. Love having you. Okay buddy. Well thank you so much for your time and everybody, the book is, uh, when Your Way Isn't Working, and what's the release date on it? Uh, June 6th. June 6th. Coming out right around the corner. All right. Well, Kyle, thank you so much for being with us.

Thanks, brother. Well, thanks so much for listening. I hope you share this with a friend and subscribe as well. Next week we're gonna be back with three books to read this summer. Part of Simple Faith is figuring out the stuff to put in our head. One of my favorite things to do is read. I'm gonna give you three books that you can read or listen to on Audible if you'd like, but three books to read this summer next week.

Thanks for listening, and as always, keep it simple.