The Rusty George Podcast

Welcome to a very special five part
series from Simple Faith Believers

and churchgoers have heard over
and over again of the importance of

sharing and understanding your faith.

This is called apologetics, and for some
of you, apologetics may be your thing.

It may be an area of interest and
practice for you, but for the rest

of us, apologetics can feel off.

It can feel more like trying
to argue someone to heaven

rather than lead them to Jesus.

In this series, we wanna look into
the question, what if you're right?

What if apologetics, as we know
it and have heard it before,

actually is doing it the hard way?

If that's true, is there a way
that might make sharing your faith?

A little more simple.

Rusty George: conventional wisdom often
dictates that there's some kind of an

engagement of intellect or presentation
of carefully honed arguments, uh,

presenting some kind of irrefutable
evidence in order to help change

somebody's viewpoint or worldview.

Well, these are some of the questions
we're gonna ask over the next five

weeks, and that is, is that the only way.

Because many of us have
wrestled with sharing our faith.

We've heard great commission
being preached at us about how

you should have a burden for
lost friends and lost loved ones.

Uh, you should be better
at sharing your faith.

And as if it wasn't hard enough.

Now we have a culture that's deeply
divided around politics and values, and

it feels as if there's only one thing
people in our culture can agree on,

and that is that they don't agree and
they don't necessarily enjoy church.

So how do we truly connect with
those whose convictions stand

and start contrast to our own?

James Browning: Our investigation
begins with a seemingly simple idea

that genuine human connection may be
a crucial first step in navigating

the complex landscape of belief.

Rusty George: You know, there are
many branches of apologetics that have

developed over the past 2000 years from
classical to evidential to cultural.

And over the course of this podcast,
I featured many experts in these

fields, including some of the
leading experts on apologetics

like Sean McDowell and Lee Strobel.

These brilliant men and women have helped
our generation build out a solid case for

Christianity and the solid foundation of
reason and truth that our faith rests on.

But over the past several years, our
culture has shifted pretty dramatically.

And if you're like me, you may have
wondered what actually works now.

You may have found that an argument in
a world of documentary people, uh, no

matter how solid or reasonable, it's
just kinda like a drop in the ocean.

People spend all day arguing online,
arguing about politics, arguing

about sports, arguing about anything.

So today I'd like to see if we
can share our faith the simple

way through relational apologetics

James Browning: relational
apologetics is the idea of building

trust and understanding with
others before presenting arguments.

Instead of spending all my time
trying to ask someone to make a

leap, I'm going to spend it building
a bridge to get a clearer picture.

Let's look at the history of evangelism.

Much of our modern view of evangelism
in general, and apologetics specifically

comes from the Roman way of evangelism.

Author George Hunter says that for
the early church Romans evangelism

meant rationally proving the validity
of Christianity's truth claims.

Hunter suggests that the Roman
approach favored words, propositions,

concepts, and theological abstractions
appealing more to the left brain as

Rome and the Roman way of thinking
expanded throughout the Western world.

Christianity spread with it, but
in the mid fifth century, the Roman

Empire began to fall, and again,
along with it, Christianity began to

decline in much of the Western world.

However, there was one region largely
untouched by Roman influence, where

Christianity began to spread and flourish.

That was thanks to the efforts of St.

Patrick.

While the Romans emphasized a need to
fully accept the gospel and its teachings

in order to join the Christian community,
the Celts took the opposite approach.

St.

Patrick and his later converts would
create communities with the explicit

goal of inviting non-believers
to join the community there, they

welcomed them and through song
and story and metaphor, created an

environment where belief could happen.

The goal was to create the fertile soil
where the seeds of the truth of the

gospel could flourish, and it worked.

That, and I've interviewed far more
than a thousand first generation

converts out of secularity.

And so my own data led me to the
conclusion that most people who become

Christians do not decide to believe.

They discover that they believe,
and that faith is a gift.

In Ephesians two, eight and nine, uh,
I think all of the exes tell us that,

that, uh, golden text affirms that both
grace and faith are the gift of God.

And, uh, I felt like the ancient
Celtic Christian movement, uh,

understood that and then as the
culture moved incrementally from

modernity to post modernity, the
Celtic uh, perspective, uh, seemed to

be more astonishingly relevant okay.

So if, if I can take from your book
what it was saying is the Roman model

demanded, um, uh, an ascent to a certain
body of knowledge and then you joined Yes.

Versus the Celtic model where
you became part of a community.

Exactly.

The Roman model, uh, which has been
widely assumed in Protestant Christianity,

is that you communicate the gospel
and when people say they believe you,

then invite them into the fellowship.

But, uh, the Celtic model say no.

You look for people who are receptive
and you, uh, there's some public

communication of the gospel, of course,
and some people surface as interested.

You welcome them into the fellowship.

They belong before they believe.

And increasingly in post modernity,
it seems like most people have to

experience it that way, or they
might never experience it at all.

And the earlier way in some circles that
this was framed is for most people, the

Christian faith is even more caught than
taught, and they catch it from being in

small groups and other forms of Christian
community, including worship, et cetera.

Uh, the evil one does not stack
secular society on the side of many

people finding justifying grace.

Apart from the community of faith.

Rusty George: Emerging from this
understanding is the concept of.

Of relational apologetics, a
paradigm shift that prioritizes

connection before conviction.

This approach contrasts with the
traditional Roman way of believe first,

then belong, where doctrinal agreement
often proceeds community integration.

Instead, relational apologetics
champions what has been termed

the Celtic Way belong to believe.

Imagine a community extending an
unconditional welcome offering

support and genuine friendship,
creating a context where questions

about belief can surface organically.

The focus here is on cultivating
trust and understanding as

foundational elements proceeding the
presentation of theological claims.

According to a study by Barna,
12% of believers claim they had

the gift of service, 10% claim.

They had the gift of encouragement,
only 3% claim they had the gift

of hospitality, but just 1% claim
they had the gift of evangelism.

Maybe traditional apologetics
can feel like a challenge because

you've been trying to unlock
a door with the wrong key.

This time, let's try the key
that God made you to use.

James Browning: Hannah is a staff member
at a church in Southern California.

She and her husband had recently moved
there from across the country, and the

majority of the people that she were
also on staff or attended the church.

At the beginning of the new year,
her lead pastor started a one life

campaign encouraging everyone in the
congregation to pray for and reach

out to one life with the gospel.

Hannah worked with preschoolers and does
not identify as being gifted in vandalism.

Though she isn't shy about her faith, even
still, she didn't know anyone well enough

yet to really start evangelizing them.

Hannah Browning: My husband and I
were in a small group One week, the

leader of the group asked us to pray
for a friend that was her one life.

This other woman was going
through a rough divorce.

Her kids and our small group host
kids were friends, and God had

placed her on our leader's heart.

So my husband and I decided that we
were going to adopt her one life,

and so we started praying for her.

Soon.

Our leader invited her to our small
group and we all became friends.

Just a few short weeks later,
she asked Jesus into her heart.

James Browning: At first, Hannah said
that it felt like cheating, like they

needed to find their own one life and that
maybe they were stealing someone else's.

But the more they thought about it, and
the more they discussed it with their

group, the more they realized that
this was how all relationships work.

This is how their small group worked
when they moved and joined the group.

We are constantly being invited into
friend groups or families, or inviting

others into our groups and families.

Why are we trying to do it all apart
from one of the key benefits of

Christianity, which is Godly community?

I.

Rusty George: The power of
authentic Christian community

emerges as a significant, often
unspoken form of apologetic.

For individuals who have never encountered
tangible expressions of Christian Love and

care, the lived reality of a supportive
and inclusive community can serve as

a far more compelling introduction to
faith than any philosophical treaties.

Thinkers like Ooz Guinness underscore the
reality that belief is frequently shaped

and sustained within social frameworks.

Personal experience
often echoes this truth.

The positive influence of a friend
who holds a particular belief can be a

powerful catalyst for further inquiry.

James Browning: Yet a
critical question arises.

Does this emphasis on connection risk
diluting the core tenets of faith?

Is being nice, a substitute for the
clear communication of the truth.

This concern is acknowledged
directly within the framework

of relational apologetics.

It is crucial to understand
that this approach is not a

watered down version of belief.

But rather the essential groundwork for
the effective communication of truth,

it is learning someone's language
in order to tell them the good news.

Greg Cocal astutely points out
kindness alone is insufficient.

It must be coupled with an appropriate
communication of the truth.

Greg Koukl: This is one reason why I think
it, it's almost dangerous for people to.

Lean too heavily on that read, which
is gonna break on 'em because, oh, you

can't reason somebody into the, well,
there's a lot of people that need that

kind of thing to remove the obstacles

keep in mind too, any of your friends
that are listening to the show that

have skeptical or non-Christian
friends that have pushed back

against Christianity, I guarantee you
everyone is pushed back for a reason.

They will say, well, this bothers me, this
and whatever it happens to be, hypocrites

in the church, or, uh, problem of evil,
or Jesus being the only way or can't

trust the Bible right down the line.

But these are all reasons that they,
that, that they are not willing to

take the Christian message seriously.

Now I think we understand that there's.

Another reason that goes deeper than
that, that has to do with rebellion and

sin, but at least this, these are the
first things we encounter, and unless

we remove, it's not always the case.

But often, unless we remove those
barriers, we can't get to the real issue,

which is their rebellion against God.

Yeah.

One qualifier here though, we,
we lower the bar for our

engagements with other people.

Let's just be friendly,
let's be warm with them.

Let's build relationship.

And, uh, it doesn't mean though that we
substitute being warm and friendly for a

substantive communication of the gospel.

Right.

Uh, and what I say to folk is,
if you think that being nice.

People is, is going to be the way
that you're gonna win them to Christ.

And, and you kind of stop there.

Just keep in mind you'll never be
able to, to out nice a Mormon, so

this is why we want to make sure
that our, our, our gracious.

Character and demeanor and involvement
with them is coupled with an appropriate,

um, communication of the truth.

James Browning: The strategic
imperative lies in the order,

establishing a foundation of connection.

Creates an environment where
truth is able to be received and

understood with greater openness.

Rusty George: Thus the act of
sharing one's faith can be reframed.

Not as a forceful imposition of
doctrine, but more of an invitation.

An invitation to engage in
meaningful dialogue and then become

part of a supportive community.

This subtle but significant shift
in perspective can alleviate the

pressure for those sharing their
beliefs and reduce the sense of

threat for those exploring new ideas.

In Luke 15, one of my favorite
chapters in the entire Bible, we

read the parables of Lost Things.

We've got the Lost Sheep, the
Lost Coin, the Prodigal Son.

In each of these three parables, the
emphasis is not on finding the lost thing.

The emphasis is no command for
you to find the lost thing.

The parables are all about the party.

When the lost thing is found, they're
in response to Jesus, welcoming

and eating with the sinners.

The Pharisees were questioning Jesus'
efforts to build a relationship with

people who didn't live like him.

And in each one of the stories, by
word count, Jesus spends the most time

talking about the party and the final
parable, the story of the prodigal son.

Not only was everyone in the community
invited to the party, but the lost

son was too, and so was the other son.

The other son was chastised for not
participating in community despite being

right, despite having the truth and
having had the truth the whole time.

He still missed the relationship.

James Browning: The emphasis shifts
from delivering pronouncements to

walking alongside individuals, actively
listening to their narratives and

providing a shared meal or space for
exploring life's profound questions.

In short, the reason
Apologetics has felt off.

The reason it has been so hard and so
complicated is maybe because you've

been trying to do it by yourself.

Rusty George: As we wrap up
this first episode, we're

left with some key questions.

Have personal experiences shown
that openness to new ideas is often

linked to the person presenting them.

How does the feeling of being truly
heard impact one's willingness

to consider new perspectives?

And does the concept of belonging before
believing resonate with observations

in various aspects of life, both
within and beyond religious context,

yet a significant challenge remains.

If relational apologetics hinges
on building authentic connections,

how do we navigate the deeply
entrenched mistrust that can arise

from negative experience with
religious individuals or institutions?

How do we bridge the relational
barriers created by church hurt?

James Browning: This critical
question will guide our

exploration in the next chapter.

See you next time.