The Rusty George Podcast

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Following Jesus isn't always easy, but it's not complicated. Join us each week as we work to make faith simple. This Hey, welcome to simple faith. My name is Rusty George. Honored to have you with us today. We get to hear from one of my favorite guests and one of our listeners, favorite guests. He's a new Testament scholar.

He's also a resident scholar slash pastor at CCV in the Phoenix area, and he was one of my former professors back at Ozark Christian college. His name is Mark Moore, Dr. Mark E Moore. Uh, affectionately referred to as Marky Mark, and we love Mark. Uh, he's an incredible individual, pastor, friend, and scholar, and we're going to ask him some of the tough questions that we've all had recently, and it's really certainly since COVID, when we started wondering, are we living in the end times?

Certainly all of the news with Israel and what's going on over there makes us wonder, is this it? Is this the beginning of the end? And we tackled that question as well as a few others today in our podcast. I want to thank our sponsor for participating with the show and helping us make things happen and encourage you to check them out.

And I'm so grateful for this conversation we get to have with our good friend, Mark Moore. Mark Moore, welcome back to the podcast. I don't know if this is your third or fourth time on, but repeat offender. So thank you for coming back. It always feels like the first time with you, Rusty. Thank you so much.

I'm not sure how to take that. Um, okay, so you have been, um, so helpful for us, because you're kind of our resident New Testament scholar. And when I get stumped with a question, I think, Hmm, I'll ask Mark. And then I'll have them on the podcast to answer that for everybody. And so, you know, one of the questions that we've been getting a lot, and I'm sure a lot of pastors have been getting for the last few months is, okay, this thing with Israel, uh, first of all, what's going on, and second of all, Does this, is this one of the indicators of the end times?

Now we got these questions a lot during COVID. Yeah. Um, but now obviously anytime there's trouble in the Middle East, we kind of read the tea leaves of, Oh, this is it. We're on the timer. So tell us a little bit about just, cause you've been to Israel a lot. Um, and just being a, uh, you know, well studied in that area.

What's going on over there? What's the trouble? I know it goes way back, uh, to the Old Testament, not just recent events. Give us a quick timeline as to what's happening before we get into what could happen next. Yeah. What it, to do the broadest possible survey, you have to go back to Abraham. And Sarah, God made a promise that you're going to have a child.

He was 90 at the time and they were childless. So she was probably 86 or so and childless. Chances are like zero that you have a child at that age without divine intervention, but in his impatience. It was Sarah, actually, not Abraham, who said, Hey, why don't you sleep with Hagar, my handmaiden? That's how we're going to have a baby.

And so, listen, this is completely apart from end times theology, but if, if men, men, I'm speaking to you, if your wife ever says to you, Hey, why don't you sleep with another woman? That would be good for our relationship. The answer is a hard stop, no. That child, and this is so interesting to me, uh, Rusty, and I didn't realize this until about five years ago, God made a promise to Abraham that I will bless your offspring.

Ergo, if he has an illegitimate child, that child is going to be blessed as well. And in fact, the same promises that were made to Isaac were also given to Ishmael. How many children did Isaac eventually have through Jacob? Twelve. How many, so twelve tribes of Israel. How many tribes were there from Ishmael?

Twelve. The same promises that were made, because they were made to Abraham. So here's a lesson, apart from the end times, Uh, theology, when God makes a promise, he's going to keep the promise. And if you illegitimize your side, the promise still stands, but it may come back to bite you if you don't do it God's way.

So from Ishmael and Isaac on down, there has always been fraternal turmoil between the children of Ishmael and the children of Isaac. And that's what, that's what we're seeing today. We saw the turmoil really heighten in the, uh, 4th and 5th century A. D. with Muhammad. Who, by the way, could have been a Christian, but he was rejected by the Christian community because of his background.

Again, when you, when you don't do things God's way, you pay the price. So because he was rejected, he was kind of interested in Judaism and kind of interested in Christianity, both rejected him. He goes off, veers off on his own, gets these revelations that we now call the Koran. And ever since then, uh, he, there has been a violent opposition between Jews and Muslims.

And what's, what's fascinating, Rusty, is if you look at the history of They are credited with many scientific discoveries, artistic discoveries, calligraphy, artistic calligraphy. Virtually all of those advances through Islam in the Middle Ages were actually by slaves of Islam who were Christians. And Jews who continue to contribute to, um, cultural advancement.

Now that's not, that's not a knock against, uh, uh, Islam. Of course, it just, uh, as a point of historical fact, there's always been an interweaving between these three strands of religion, all going back to Abraham. All of them are religions of the book. And in fact, there is no other religion of the book outside of Mormonism from Judaism, Islam, and Christianity.

Because of that, all, all three of those major religions are going to go back to the ancient texts of their tradition to see a lineage. The Jewish texts go back to really a thousand years B. C. is when you first start getting the text written. Christianity, the end of the first century. Islam the end of the 5th century When those texts were gathered fast forward then through the middle ages, you've got the crusades Where christians are trying to recapture the holy land and I want to put this in perspective for our listeners I, I, I get this might be TMI, but the darkest days of Christianity were the 200 years of Crusades.

I think there were seven major Crusades. There were approximately 2 million people died on both sides of the battlefield in 200 years. When those opposed to the church accused the church of being, you know, look at the crusades and look at, look at how bad they are. 2 million in 200 years. Look at what happens in the last century when Christianity is removed from government, from Nazi Germany, from atheistic Russia and, uh, Buddhist China, there were.

Approximately two Approximately a hundred million killed by those three regimes in a period of 20 years So death tolls rise when god even even the god of islam you take the god of islam allah out Death tolls will rise under godless regimes sidebar Over i'm going to pause and take a breath and uh And see if you have any follow up questions before we get into 1948.

Uh, fascinating, and I did not know about the 12 tribes of Ishmael. That's really, really interesting. Um, is this a good time to talk about, um, the Temple Mount and this little square area of Jerusalem that everybody's fighting over? which is really Mount Moriah, Abraham, all of that. You want to trace that now or is that better for later on?

Yeah, no, let's trace it now because when, um, the Jews were kicked out of Jerusalem in really two series of rebellions. If you look at the life of Jesus, 0 BC, He's born actually about 4 BC. It was 63 BC when the Romans Get this, we're invited in to settle the Jewish squabbling between two brothers who couldn't get along.

And so, when the Romans came in, the Jews say, oh, the Romans oppressed us. Actually, you invited them in because of a civil war, uh, within the city. When Pompey marched into Jerusalem, according to the text of Josephus, he came into the temple, violating the temple, went into the Holy of Holies, and found it empty.

No Ark of the Covenant. No, like, it was, it was empty. So, we don't know when that happened, probably during the Babylonian Crusades in 586 BC. Nonetheless, Rome comes in 63 BC. The, the Jews rebelled against Rome in 66 AD. So about 120 years. So Rome comes in and crushes them. And it took, it took about three and a half years to crush them.

When they did a couple of things happened. Well, multiple things happened. We think the Romans destroyed the Jewish temple. When point of fact is. The Jews, who had lost the city, run into the temple as a fortress. It's a military fortress now, not just a temple of God. They, they knew they were going to lose it, so they ambushed the portico of Solomon.

So when the Romans came in, they burnt it on top of them. Wow. Crazy story. Titus, the, the general who is leading the campaign, told his forces, Do not destroy the city. We want to keep this city as a Roman city. But when the Jews burned their own temple on top of Roman soldiers, the Roman soldiers went out of control and destroyed it, as Jesus predicted 40 years earlier, stone from stone.

It was at that point that the Temple Mount was cleared, the whole city was cleared. Jews were mostly kicked out, not allowed to live in their sacred city, and they built a temple to Zeus, or actually it would be Jupiter, the Roman form of Zeus, on the Temple Mount. That temple stood there. Uh, really into the second century, you have another rebellion.

The Jews tried to retake the city. And at that point, the Romans said, you're out. 136 AD, they're completely kicked out and they go to Babylon. They go into Europe, they go into Northern Israel. I know that's kind of a. Well, a lot of detail, but just like 63 BC, Rome was coming the first time, 66, they destroyed the temple, 135, all the Jews are kicked out.

It's a Roman city. When Rome fell in the fourth century, Muslims took over. The Temple Mount, and it is then that they build what is called the Dome of the Rock that we see today on the spot where the Temple stood. To this day, the Dome of the Rock is the second most sacred site to Muslims in the world, on top of the first most sacred site to Jews.

So, fast forward now into post World War II, when the Germans were defeated, and because of the Six million Jews that died in the Holocaust. The world turned its attention to the Jews and said they need to go back to their homeland. The people of Palestine and Israel, a true Israelites or Jews do not like calling it Palestine because that indicates that it's Palestinian territory.

And they would say it's always illegitimately. always legitimately Israel. But in 1948, the powers of the world said we are going to give Israel back to the Jews. And so the Jews came in and basically took over the private homes of Palestinians and pushed them out to these areas, uh, that are, um, secondary areas like the Gaza Strip, like the Golan Heights, um, and allowed The, the former Palestinians to only live in those areas, take a breath.

It is easy in our current political situation to fight for the underdog. And say, man, those Palestinians, they got the raw into the stick. If you, if you take a realistic historical, and I'll just lay my cards on the table, I am pro Israel. I'm pro Israel because as a Christian, and if you're a Christian, you should be pro Israel too, because you're an adopted child of Abraham.

Salvation comes. Through the Jews, through the Messiah Jesus, back to our Father Abraham, and all of us who claim the name of Jesus, we have been adopted as, well, Paul uses the illustration, a grafted branch. So, for theological reasons, I'm pro Israel. For democratic reasons, I'm pro Israel. It is the only democratic state.

So, if you care about economic advancement of the poor, you should be pro Israel. Prior to, and I know this is going to be controversial, but prior to Israel entering the Palestinian territory in 1948, it was mostly uninhabited, it was mostly very poor, it was mostly, uh, deterioration of human rights.

Education for women, protection for, for those who were outsiders, immigration from, from other neighboring warring areas. Today, Israel is a robust first world nation surrounded by other nations that are not. So if you're concerned about global economy, if you're concerned about human rights, if you're concerned about educational advancement, if you're concerned about advancement for the poor, you should be pro Israel.

Rather than pro Palestinian. And with that you announce your candidacy. Yeah Hardly, I mean, I know a lot of people gonna be upset with that I would just I would just challenge you to see what Palestinian Palestine was like prior to the state of Israel and think about what Palestine would be like without a Democratic government now, I'm not saying that the state of Israel is without its sins Certainly, there has been, uh, some retaliation that is Outer proportion to the attacks, but let's be clear.

Hamas is not a nation. It is a terrorist organization. Mm hmm. That is Embedded in a Palestinian territory. Okay, they do not accept the right for Israel to exist so once you Once you say that a nation does not have the right to exist you put your cards on the table And if they're, if you are hiding, say under a school or under a hospital, these, and these tunnels are, I mean, now that they've been exposed, we're seeing the network of tunnels and what they contain.

It is a lot of weaponry that is funded primarily from other governments that are anti Israeli. So this is not, the war right now in Israel from a political standpoint is not a war between Israel and Palestine. It is a war between Israel and a terrorist organization that's funded by other nations that want to obliterate Israel from the face of the earth.

And does that all trace back to Isaac and Ishmael? Exactly. Okay. You mentioned the blessings of God. Being upon Isaac and thus having to be upon Ishmael because of the offspring of Abraham, where do those blessings cease? Because, okay, we get the 12 tribes, but as I mean, are we saying that God's hand has been upon them or walk me through, have they moved outside of that realm now, or what does that look like?

The blessings of God, as Paul would say, is irrevocable. The blessing of God for the nation of, of Ishmael to flourish, I don't think will ever go away until the end of time. We're still living in this dispensation. Now, let me clarify. That does not mean that God approves the aggression against Isaac and his offspring by Ishmael and his offspring.

It doesn't mean that somehow There's an alternative way of salvation through Ishmael and not Isaac. That's not true. The, the salvation, salvation comes through Abraham's offspring, through Jesus, period. So even a Jew who, uh, wants to be saved has to go through Jesus. But the beautiful thing about, about what Jesus did is, it, Then I'm going to summarize a ton of theology here in, in, in just a, uh, a brief period of time.

Many Jews see salvation as the collection of the twelve dispersed tribes back to Israel. In other words, we're going to, we're going to find the nation of, of, uh, Or the, the, the tribes of Benjamin. We're going to find the tribe of Judah. We're going to find the tribe of, uh, well, whatever the 12 tribes are, distributed abroad.

We're going to bring them back to Israel. And that's what it means for the Messiah to save Israel. The New Testament paints a different picture. Because the 10 northern tribes have been lost. They were lost in the, in the Assyrian exile. What the new Testament says will happen is not that all the dispersed Jews will come back to Israel, but that the boundaries of Israel will go global through the great commission of Jesus.

And anybody who names the name of Jesus, regardless of their background, their economics, their social status or political leanings, Anybody has access to God through the person of Jesus Christ. So while some people see Christianity as a narrowing, like it's only through Jesus that you're saved, the new text will say, no, no, no, it's, it's actually an expansion of who can be included in God's family through adoption.

Hey, let me interrupt this podcast to just remind you about courage to lead. com. A great organization that is helping leaders build killer teams. And I'm happy to announce that I am now part of their organization, helping pastors and business leaders. If you'd like to learn more about me being your coach or finding a different coach, just check it out at my website, PastorRustyGeorge.

com for more information. All right, back to the show. Okay. So that was. Well summarized in a very quick amount of time. I felt like I got a Bible college education there in just a few minutes. Uh, and not bad for a New Testament scholar to walk through the Old Testament that way. So my question for you then is, okay, so does this mean the end is near?

Uh, we have all the prophecies and we have all the modern day prophets predicting this is it. Uh, we've got, um, uh, I mean, we can get into tribulation and all those kinds of things. But Is this another sign of the time by what's going on in Israel? Well, Rusty, if somebody is listening to this podcast and hearing what I said about Israel and Palestine, and they might lean a little politically left, what I've said previously might be a little disconcerting to them.

So now we have all the people kind of leaning politically, right? Let me offend them now.

No, what's happening in Israel, in my opinion, Is not a harbinger of the end of time. For those that disagree with me, I would just, you know, you'll, you might be right. You could be right. I'll tell you in seven years if you're right, because if it is in seven years, we'll all know. But I've been through these seven year tribulation period so many times.

I'm 61 years old. I see Rusty, you have a little bit of gray on top as well. You might remember in uh, 1988. Yes. There was a famous book that came out. Eighty eight reasons Jesus has to come back in 1988. It was revised in 1989. The new title was 89 reasons that Jesus had to come back in 1989. And the 89th reason was the Romans screwed up the calendar.

We were a year off. At some point, you got to be tired of being wrong. And all of these guesses so far have been 100 percent wrong. Um, about the end of time. And I think if we could take a step back and just ask, why is it that so many American theologians are making so many specific guesses? It is a cultural issue that we, we do not do well with paradox.

We do not do well with figurative speech. We want things to be mechanically, even computerized accuracy. And so we want all the prophecy to fit into a logical scheme of boxes that we can order. The problem is that the Jewish writers of the New Testament were not Americans. They weren't post industrialists.

They didn't know about iPhones and the internet. So the exacting demands of specific prophecies, they would say to us, You're, by, by looking at all the details, you're missing the forest for the trees. It is this, it's preparation language. It is encouragement to a heart of a church that's being persecuted.

That's what's important. And when we drill down to the details and try to make circular passages fit into a square box, we're going to violate a little bit the meaning of scriptures. Because we need it to be precise, not because the authors meant it to be precise. So, when Jesus gives us the signs of the times in Matthew, Some of that is the destruction of Jerusalem.

Some of that is the end of days. How, how do you kind of interpret that or see that? Yeah, so for those of you who have studied Matthew 24, there are a lot of signs and frankly, they're not very good signs. Wars and rumors of wars. Okay, like when have we not had that? Earthquakes. Maybe here in California, right?

When have you not had earthquakes? When have you not had false Christs? The signs are not specific enough for us to Point on a calendar and I'm going to say something that is going to blow a lot of people's minds But just fact check me on this. What if the return of Christ is not a Point on a calendar but a completion of a task in other words What if the timing of Jesus coming is not dependent on God's will?

But on the church's obedience to the great commission You think about when israel left egypt the first time how long were they in the desert? Well 40 years how long should they have been in the desert 40 days In fact, they did get to the promised land in 40 days and they sent spies in and then they rejected The advice of the good spies that two, two of the spies said, yeah, go in.

We can take it. 10 of the spies said, they're too big. They're giants. The walls are, are thick. And God said, okay, if you're not going to believe me, then you can just take another lap and in fact, take, take 40 laps in the desert and the entire generation is going to die and then a new generation of faith can go in.

Israel could have been in the promised land in 40 days. It took 40 years. I wonder if we couldn't already be in heaven. If everyone on your podcast was less concerned about the calendar and more concerned about conversion of a neighbor, if we wouldn't be there already. Now, having said that you guys who are out there guessing.

Good luck with that because 1948 came and went, they predicted from 1948, the reestablishment of the Jewish nation, 40 years is a generation. So Jesus said in this generation, it's going to come to pass. Well, that's why 1988 was such a big deal. Now that I've said all that, I feel like I'm yammering on here, but apologize.

Now that I've said all that. Where do I draw the line in Matthew 24? At verse 36, where Jesus says, But of that hour, and in the Greek it's a strong, it's a strong contrast. It's not just, well, but, it's, okay, now. So, he describes in meticulous detail the destruction of Jerusalem, so much so that there were hundreds of Christians that their lives were saved in 69 A.

D. in the middle of the siege of Jerusalem. There was a, there was a political change between Tiberius and Titus, the Roman general. Tiberius went and became the emperor, Titus stayed there, his son Titus stayed there and finished the war. In that brief moment, there was a, a time when you could escape the city.

Now nobody wanted to escape the city because that's where the walls were thick. But the Christians listened to Jesus prophecy and counterintuitively Jesus said, flee the city, so they did, and they ran to, uh, to a city just north of Jerusalem and were saved. Jesus describes the destruction of Jerusalem, but the destruction of Jerusalem is a microcosm in 70 A.

D. of the macrocosm at the end of the world. That's why the images are so confusing. That what was true of Jerusalem in 70 AD will be true of the world in the end of time. So it's easy to get the two confused. And frankly, I don't think it matters if you get it confused because again, the purpose is not to spur you to, you know, hoard resources and weather the storm.

The purpose is for you. to face the storm, walk into the storm, and share the gospel of Jesus so more people can be saved. Talk to the modern church right now who is consumed with these things. You've already, you've already tripped into it a little bit, but it seems like we get so obsessed with the minor details that we miss the major.

Uh, I like to talk about there's the essential and important. And then there's the non essential but important. So, you know, I, my entire life I've lived in church cultures that get obsessed with, okay, it's important, but it's not essential, whether it's age of the earth or end times or predestination or speaking in tongues.

Um, in, in this situation, just encourage us with does matter most and what we should be interested in, but not. Putting all of our time or attention to yeah, so it's time to tell a story the very first time rusty Someone asked me to preach through revelation. I didn't feel qualified to preach through it There was a little church in kansas, maybe 150 people.

So I decided to prepare for this Revivals like a four day series of teachings. I would take the month of july I would read the book of revelation every day. No commentary. It's just the book of revelation Every day I read through the entire book and I wrote down questions like what does this mean? What does that mean every day?

I I had this long list of questions But the more I read, the more my questions were answered by the book of revelation at the end of the month I had three passages where I said, I just I don't know what this means And so I took five commentaries off the shelf and I read those three passages With five commentaries on three passages.

I wound up with 15 opinions Which led me to believe they don't know any more than I do about the book of Revelation I, so now I want to answer the question for your audience that you asked. What is important? Do not assume that someone else just because they have some initials behind their name knows more about the passage than you know.

The Bible was not written to scholars. It wasn't written to those who could do seminars on end times. It was written to people like you. In the trenches who are going through difficulties of life. After the first session at this little church in Kansas, a woman came up to me and all we had talked about was the seven churches of revelation, which is the easiest part to preach on.

And she came to me and she was thinking, she was in tears because of the words of revelation to the church of Laodicea, you have lost your first love. And she said, I know that this. Passage is not talking about my marriage, but I got to tell you My husband and I we used to he's a farmer. He used to love me And you know, we had a great relationship and now we don't even talk to each other I think I think we're going to get divorced true story I I was pretty young at the time and i've never been a good counselor So do not come to me for marriage advice.

I'll screw up your life But the holy spirit intervened in that moment and I said well what? What did jesus say to the church of laodicea? She said well, it said to to do what you did at first I said, well, what did you used to do with your husband that you don't do now? Maybe try it. And she got a little sheepish and she said, well, I used to take lunch to him every day in the field.

And we would lay out a blanket and have a picnic lunch. And, and then she got a little embarrassed, but confessed it. Sometimes we had dessert. I said, well, why don't you try that? And she said I don't think you'll even get out of the cab next night She comes night two of the revival on Revelation He came with her and she said and she was both of them beaming from ear to ear said I took the lunch out to him and He stops the tractor and yells at her.

What the blank are you doing out here? And she simply said You know, I used to bring you lunch. I used to really enjoy that. So I brought you lunch. Why don't you come out? And they had a picnic lunch. And then she winked at me and said, and we had dessert. And the guy said, I don't know what that preacher is preaching, but I won't come here.

What he has to say. Now, obviously there's, there's some humor in that just because the sweetness of the story, but what it taught me. And the whole story is for this one line. What if the book of revelation is not a calendar, but a template? It's not something that you look at to find out when something will happen, but it's a template that you lay over any period of suffering to find hope and health and healing.

What I would say to your audience, what I've said to churches when I preach on this, is the book of Revelation will give you the tools to endure whatever faces you. Tribulation in Revelation is not simply what will happen. Is what always happens and you look at the two beasts the beast we're talking about revelation 13 The beast out of the sea is a political government and seas divided people in the first century world So the very scary places and you have one nation on one side of the sea one nation the other side of the sea But out of the sea comes a beast, and this beast pulls together what we have called a one world government, and then another beast comes from the land.

That beast does miracles and it's a, it's a blasphemous beast. The first beast looks like the dragon or the devil. The second beast looks like Jesus, the Lamb with two horns. And you go, well, that's offensive. Yeah, it's. The beast from the land aligns with the beast of the sea. So you have a one world government supported by a false religion to carry out the agenda of the devil.

Now, let me ask you this. What government is that? Uh, I can think of a dozen off the top of my head. This is not what will happen. This is what always happens and it may happen sometime in the future in a more specific way or a more punctuated way, but this is what is happening. Today in our own country.

As well as countries around the world. So what should you take from Revelation? A template of how to stand firm for Jesus no matter what suffering you're going through. Whether it is cancer or incarceration, whether it is divorce or some kind of sickness that you're dealing with. Hanging on to Jesus in the midst of tribulation is the call of God.

Not for you, but so that someone who sees your suffering will be able to have hope when they have no other hope than Jesus. So it really all does come back to making Jesus famous where you are in the situation you're in with the hope of scriptures. That's perfect. Thank you so much. Um, Mark, this is awesome.

As always. Uh, last question for you. Um, when is it safe to go back to Israel? Uh, we were all planning on trips. Probably. I know I had one plan for later on. 2024 and then everything kind of got shut down at the time. We're recording this. There's a supposed cease fire Um, you know, you're a little bit more of a renegade than I am.

You'll probably head into battle, but uh When would you tell people at your church? I think it's time for us to take another trip to israel Yeah, that's that's a very good question and you're right Uh, two of my best friends went to Israel. I was in, uh, I was out of the country at the time, and I was so upset that they went there.

They literally went to the first kibbutz that got attacked. I was so envious. So I'm not the right guy to ask, when would you go? But I'll answer you, when should you go? We canceled, our church canceled two trips this spring. Uh, we will not schedule a trip for the fall, but I have. Very little doubt that you will be able to go back in the spring of 2025.

I would get your reservations now. Because you will get them as cheaply as they'll ever be. And if you need to cancel, you can cancel them later. But, uh, look, Israel is, uh, is typically a very safe place. When you go through the airport, you realize that immediately and like. Any news outlet, they're showing you what is the worst place to be at the worst moment to be there.

It is seldom as dangerous as, as people assume. So, I would be comfortable, I would be even, if you have a trip scheduled for the fall, I wouldn't cancel it until June or July. But certainly schedule a trip in April or May of next year, I think you'll be. I think you'd be happy you did. That's great. Mark, always a blessing.

Uh, tell everybody real quick about your books, cause they're awesome. We've talked about them in the past. Core 52, Quest 52, what's the difference and where can they get them? Well, Core 52 are the 52 verses that are most preached by preachers like Rusty George. Uh, they're the passages of the Bible that really help you know God, love God, and live with God.

Quest 52 zeroes in on just that. It's not all the Bible. It's Jesus, his preaching, his power, his passion, uh, and his person. And so if you're wanting to give a year of your life to really dig into Jesus, Quest 52 would be a good option. Wherever books are sold, uh, Amazon is probably the easiest, especially if you have free shipping.

That's great, buddy. Well, as always, thank you. I always feel like we get a master class and, uh, for free. So, uh, much cheaper than my, uh, education at Ozark. So, uh, although Ozark's pretty cheap. So, thank you, my friend. Thank you for everything. Appreciate you. Well, thanks for, thanks for being a good model for the pastors around the country.

It's being faithful, loyal, preaching the word. Love you, buddy. Well, thanks, Mark. Really enjoyed having you with us as always. I want to thank everybody for checking out the episode, and I think you're probably thinking of somebody right now that you think, boy, I wish they could hear this. I wish that they would be able to, um, you know, kind of get some of this inside of knowledge.

Make sure you share this podcast with them and for everybody listening, make sure you click subscribe. So you always get these podcast conversations. I think you're really going to enjoy them, especially with some of the exciting ones. to come. Next week we'll be back with an interview I've been longing to do for a very long time.

It is with the World Series winning general manager of the Kansas City Royals back in 2015 and now just picked up another ring with the Texas Rangers. His name is Dayton Moore. He joins me next week for Simple Faith. Thanks for listening and as always, keep it simple.